1 00:00:01,926 --> 00:00:04,668 (gentle music) 2 00:00:07,577 --> 00:00:10,050 (somber music) 3 00:00:16,268 --> 00:00:19,580 (somber music continues) 4 00:00:24,493 --> 00:00:24,987 (somber music continues) 5 00:00:25,601 --> 00:00:26,902 - You can't live in Australia and not hear 6 00:00:26,936 --> 00:00:28,508 about the Hillsong Church. - Hillsong. 7 00:00:28,541 --> 00:00:29,811 - Hillsong. - Hillsong. 8 00:00:29,844 --> 00:00:31,283 - Hillsong. - Hillsong. 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,826 (somber music continues) - In terms of becoming aware 10 00:00:34,859 --> 00:00:38,805 of the failings of the church, 11 00:00:41,011 --> 00:00:44,456 the crimes of some of its senior members, 12 00:00:44,489 --> 00:00:47,932 well, I think you go back to this town hall meeting. 13 00:00:47,965 --> 00:00:50,239 (tense music) 14 00:00:53,449 --> 00:00:56,892 This was a time when institutional child sexual abuse, 15 00:00:56,925 --> 00:01:00,035 in many ways, was considered a kind of dark secret, 16 00:01:00,068 --> 00:01:03,077 a place for conspiracies. (tense music continues) 17 00:01:03,110 --> 00:01:05,150 Victims were damaged individuals, 18 00:01:05,183 --> 00:01:08,159 and the institutions were the kind of privileged voices. 19 00:01:08,193 --> 00:01:10,300 (tense music continues) 20 00:01:10,333 --> 00:01:12,473 I spent 11 years in Parliament 21 00:01:12,506 --> 00:01:15,113 fighting for victims of child sexual abuse 22 00:01:15,146 --> 00:01:17,621 from institutions, especially the churches. 23 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,000 When you're doing this kind of work as a politician, 24 00:01:22,034 --> 00:01:24,073 you absolutely need to find a way 25 00:01:24,107 --> 00:01:26,482 for the story to be told and fix these broken laws. 26 00:01:26,515 --> 00:01:29,324 (tense music continues) 27 00:01:29,357 --> 00:01:31,630 We booked a big hall for a Saturday morning. 28 00:01:31,663 --> 00:01:33,067 We put out a few fliers, 29 00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:35,509 and we weren't sure who would turn up. 30 00:01:35,542 --> 00:01:37,280 And I remember getting there 31 00:01:37,314 --> 00:01:39,654 about 15 minutes before the meeting started, 32 00:01:39,687 --> 00:01:41,627 and there was a crowd of people outside 33 00:01:41,660 --> 00:01:43,366 waiting for the doors to open. (melancholy music) 34 00:01:43,399 --> 00:01:44,702 And I thought to myself, well, 35 00:01:44,736 --> 00:01:48,012 this is going to be bigger than I suspected. 36 00:01:48,045 --> 00:01:50,487 Within a few minutes, those seats filled, 37 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,460 and then we put out more seats and more seats 38 00:01:52,493 --> 00:01:53,429 and more seats. 39 00:01:53,463 --> 00:01:54,732 And then this hall filled 40 00:01:54,766 --> 00:01:57,441 with hundreds, hundreds of people. 41 00:01:57,475 --> 00:01:59,313 And there were people standing on the side. 42 00:01:59,347 --> 00:02:02,456 (melancholy music continues) 43 00:02:02,490 --> 00:02:04,093 There was this emotion, 44 00:02:04,127 --> 00:02:05,432 raw emotion in the room. (melancholy music continues) 45 00:02:05,465 --> 00:02:07,303 - [Victim] He was a monster. 46 00:02:07,338 --> 00:02:09,611 An absolute monster. 47 00:02:09,644 --> 00:02:12,753 - My son committed suicide. (melancholy music continues) 48 00:02:12,786 --> 00:02:17,668 - Victims and families were telling their stories. 49 00:02:17,701 --> 00:02:19,339 After we'd heard from the victims, 50 00:02:19,374 --> 00:02:22,449 we had this police officer step up. 51 00:02:22,483 --> 00:02:24,086 (melancholy music continues) 52 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,628 - Do we need a royal commission? By hell we do. 53 00:02:26,662 --> 00:02:30,440 (audience applauding) (melancholy music continues) 54 00:02:30,473 --> 00:02:33,248 - A royal commission looks a lot like a court, 55 00:02:33,281 --> 00:02:35,689 but it has powers that go well beyond the court. 56 00:02:35,722 --> 00:02:38,263 It can force the truth from institutions. 57 00:02:38,296 --> 00:02:41,239 It can force witnesses to tell the truth. 58 00:02:41,272 --> 00:02:43,512 This was the first and best chance 59 00:02:43,546 --> 00:02:46,152 that these victims had had. (melancholy music continues) 60 00:02:46,186 --> 00:02:49,564 There was this growing media coverage. 61 00:02:49,597 --> 00:02:53,308 It felt like the moment had arrived. 62 00:02:56,852 --> 00:03:00,094 (gentle downbeat music) 63 00:03:03,572 --> 00:03:07,718 ♪ I hope you find some peace of mind ♪ 64 00:03:07,751 --> 00:03:10,760 ♪ In this lifetime ♪ 65 00:03:13,234 --> 00:03:15,307 (gentle downbeat music continues) 66 00:03:15,341 --> 00:03:19,219 ♪ I hope you find some paradise ♪ 67 00:03:21,359 --> 00:03:25,404 (gentle downbeat music continues) 68 00:03:30,754 --> 00:03:34,799 (gentle downbeat music continues) 69 00:03:40,617 --> 00:03:44,629 (gentle downbeat music continues) 70 00:03:47,771 --> 00:03:48,741 (no audio) 71 00:03:48,774 --> 00:03:51,248 (somber music) 72 00:03:56,330 --> 00:03:58,738 - I think it's incredibly hard to report on Hillsong 73 00:03:58,771 --> 00:04:00,510 for a number of reasons. (somber music continues) 74 00:04:00,543 --> 00:04:03,351 The church is not transparent in any way. 75 00:04:04,321 --> 00:04:06,394 It's run by a board of directors 76 00:04:06,427 --> 00:04:08,768 that was ostensibly handpicked by Brian Houston. 77 00:04:08,801 --> 00:04:09,971 - Amen! Amen! 78 00:04:10,004 --> 00:04:12,479 - They don't communicate with the press, 79 00:04:12,513 --> 00:04:14,752 and the church forces a lot of people 80 00:04:14,786 --> 00:04:16,958 to sign non-disclosure agreements. 81 00:04:16,992 --> 00:04:18,363 (somber music continues) 82 00:04:18,396 --> 00:04:19,366 You know, if you say bad things about Hillsong, 83 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:22,442 Hillsong can then pursue litigation against you, 84 00:04:22,476 --> 00:04:24,582 so that scares a lot of people off. 85 00:04:24,615 --> 00:04:27,323 (somber music continues) (traffic whooshing) 86 00:04:27,356 --> 00:04:30,567 So as a journalist, sometimes you have to talk 87 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,241 to other journalists who are working on the same story. 88 00:04:35,849 --> 00:04:39,560 You share information, you share leads, you share contacts, 89 00:04:39,594 --> 00:04:41,500 and together, you advance the story. 90 00:04:42,468 --> 00:04:45,778 (somber music continues) 91 00:04:47,416 --> 00:04:48,854 - [Recorder] Mr. Beckett, thank you. 92 00:04:48,888 --> 00:04:49,790 - [Beckett] Pastor Houston, 93 00:04:49,824 --> 00:04:51,262 I wonder if you could state your 94 00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:53,502 full name, please. 95 00:04:54,939 --> 00:04:56,812 - My full name is Brian Charles Houston. 96 00:04:56,845 --> 00:04:58,449 - [Beckett] Thank you. 97 00:04:58,483 --> 00:05:01,024 If in our litigation against any senior pastor, 98 00:05:01,057 --> 00:05:02,729 if that had come forward, 99 00:05:02,763 --> 00:05:04,569 you would want to know about that, wouldn't you? 100 00:05:04,602 --> 00:05:06,507 - If I had been told something like that, 101 00:05:06,541 --> 00:05:08,614 I would've been like a dog with a bone 102 00:05:08,647 --> 00:05:11,723 going after what we're talking about here. 103 00:05:11,756 --> 00:05:12,793 I was oblivious. 104 00:05:12,826 --> 00:05:13,963 Completely oblivious. 105 00:05:13,996 --> 00:05:16,437 - [Beckett] All right. (tense music) 106 00:05:16,470 --> 00:05:19,078 I'll just take you through some of the period before that. 107 00:05:19,111 --> 00:05:21,987 (upbeat rock music) 108 00:05:24,194 --> 00:05:26,635 - We moved here in 1978, you know, 109 00:05:26,668 --> 00:05:29,376 roughly 12 months after my parents. 110 00:05:29,409 --> 00:05:32,117 Initially, it was going to be a one-year working holiday. 111 00:05:32,150 --> 00:05:33,589 (upbeat rock music continues) 112 00:05:33,622 --> 00:05:35,092 - Brian came over to help his father 113 00:05:35,126 --> 00:05:37,065 when his father moved to Sydney to start a church. 114 00:05:37,098 --> 00:05:40,041 (upbeat rock music continues) 115 00:05:40,074 --> 00:05:41,780 There were a number of churches in Sydney 116 00:05:41,813 --> 00:05:43,986 that were like 50 to 100 people, 117 00:05:44,019 --> 00:05:46,861 and yet Frank had 1,000 in the space of a year. 118 00:05:46,895 --> 00:05:48,165 (upbeat rock music continues) 119 00:05:48,199 --> 00:05:49,804 - I was a window cleaner, 120 00:05:49,837 --> 00:05:52,679 and then eventually became an assistant pastor. 121 00:05:52,713 --> 00:05:55,520 From there, planted three different churches. 122 00:05:55,554 --> 00:05:58,998 The third one was what now is Hillsong Church. 123 00:05:59,031 --> 00:06:01,070 Give someone a warm hug or a handshake 124 00:06:01,104 --> 00:06:03,211 and welcome people to church. 125 00:06:03,244 --> 00:06:05,685 Amen! (congregation chattering) 126 00:06:05,718 --> 00:06:07,658 - Brian really appreciated the role 127 00:06:07,691 --> 00:06:10,767 that music played in his father's services, 128 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,945 so really early in the process of starting his own church, 129 00:06:14,979 --> 00:06:17,754 he teamed up with a very talented professional musician 130 00:06:17,788 --> 00:06:19,860 named Geoff Bullock. 131 00:06:19,894 --> 00:06:22,669 - I spoke to the then worship pastor in my dad's church 132 00:06:22,703 --> 00:06:24,240 and says, "Can you help us out 133 00:06:24,274 --> 00:06:27,115 with someone to play piano and give us some music?" 134 00:06:27,148 --> 00:06:29,690 And he says, "Well, I can only give you Geoff Bullock." 135 00:06:29,724 --> 00:06:31,195 (tense music) (congregation laughing) 136 00:06:31,228 --> 00:06:33,969 - The early days of Hills Christian Life Center. 137 00:06:34,003 --> 00:06:37,748 We started in August, '83 with an out-of-tune piano 138 00:06:37,781 --> 00:06:39,987 on the stage of Baulkham Hills Public School. 139 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,005 By summer '84, we had maybe 100, 150 people in the church. 140 00:06:47,711 --> 00:06:48,647 A lot of musicians'd come from other churches. 141 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:49,683 (tense music continues) 142 00:06:49,717 --> 00:06:51,588 Brian and I are floating around 143 00:06:51,623 --> 00:06:52,859 our above-ground swimming pools 144 00:06:52,893 --> 00:06:54,230 pretending to be millionaires. 145 00:06:54,264 --> 00:06:55,968 And that's when I said to Brian, 146 00:06:56,002 --> 00:06:58,576 "We should call the music team Hillsong." 147 00:06:59,379 --> 00:07:01,050 He said, "Why would we do that?" 148 00:07:01,084 --> 00:07:02,756 And I said, "Well, it's better than saying 149 00:07:02,789 --> 00:07:04,662 the Hills Christian Life Centre Music Team." 150 00:07:05,898 --> 00:07:09,108 So that's when the name Hillsong was born. 151 00:07:09,141 --> 00:07:11,080 The thing exploded. 152 00:07:11,114 --> 00:07:12,686 (tape clicks) 153 00:07:12,719 --> 00:07:17,333 The Brian I remember was a bit of a goofy guy. 154 00:07:17,366 --> 00:07:19,606 (gentle orchestral music) 155 00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:22,983 - He was quite a Ned Flanders-looking character. 156 00:07:23,016 --> 00:07:25,189 - And we just really love to have you here 157 00:07:25,223 --> 00:07:26,627 and wanna encourage you 158 00:07:26,661 --> 00:07:28,266 just to be a part of what God's doing. 159 00:07:28,299 --> 00:07:30,673 - I found him so average. 160 00:07:30,706 --> 00:07:33,982 I didn't really think he was going to go anywhere. 161 00:07:34,016 --> 00:07:36,356 (gentle orchestral music continues) 162 00:07:36,390 --> 00:07:38,094 Who knew? 163 00:07:38,128 --> 00:07:39,834 - When Brian started preaching, 164 00:07:39,867 --> 00:07:42,374 his eyes would blink flat out. 165 00:07:42,408 --> 00:07:45,383 (gentle orchestral music continues) 166 00:07:45,417 --> 00:07:47,656 - He wasn't the world's greatest preacher, 167 00:07:47,691 --> 00:07:49,195 but he was full of enthusiasm. 168 00:07:49,229 --> 00:07:51,067 He was very entrepreneurial. 169 00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:52,404 - You can see the potential. 170 00:07:52,438 --> 00:07:53,842 - God, I'm believing to see 171 00:07:53,876 --> 00:07:56,885 a mighty revival in this part of the city. 172 00:07:56,918 --> 00:07:58,389 How many can believe for that? 173 00:07:58,422 --> 00:07:59,827 Hallelujah! (congregation clapping) 174 00:07:59,860 --> 00:08:01,030 - And he was the type of person that you, 175 00:08:01,063 --> 00:08:02,401 not only wanted to like, 176 00:08:02,434 --> 00:08:04,407 but you wanted him to like you. 177 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,313 (gentle orchestral music continues) 178 00:08:06,346 --> 00:08:10,927 I think Brian was always trying to impress his father 179 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,431 and follow in his father's shoes, 180 00:08:12,464 --> 00:08:14,738 but not to do it like his father. 181 00:08:14,772 --> 00:08:19,151 - So praise God! (congregation applauding) 182 00:08:20,856 --> 00:08:24,367 - In 1989, six years after starting Hills Christian Centre, 183 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,306 Brian took a trip to the United States. 184 00:08:26,340 --> 00:08:28,144 (gentle music) 185 00:08:28,178 --> 00:08:32,458 1989 America was like real excess and very few apologies. 186 00:08:32,491 --> 00:08:34,430 Americans were just doing it more and bigger. 187 00:08:34,464 --> 00:08:35,868 (gentle music continues) 188 00:08:35,901 --> 00:08:38,041 Brian hooked up with a lot of American pastors 189 00:08:38,074 --> 00:08:40,448 who were teaching the prosperity gospel. 190 00:08:40,482 --> 00:08:43,524 They teach that if you give money to the church, 191 00:08:43,557 --> 00:08:45,397 God will give you money and good health in return. 192 00:08:45,430 --> 00:08:46,968 - Someone had a growth. 193 00:08:47,001 --> 00:08:48,339 I just saw a growth being healed. 194 00:08:48,372 --> 00:08:51,180 - The message that's being preached: 195 00:08:51,214 --> 00:08:54,825 power is good, and you should ask God for power. 196 00:08:54,858 --> 00:08:58,369 Money is good, and you should absolutely ask God for money, 197 00:08:58,402 --> 00:09:01,278 and the success that you have is a sign of God's blessing. 198 00:09:01,311 --> 00:09:02,381 - I like new money. 199 00:09:02,414 --> 00:09:04,019 I don't know if you do. 200 00:09:04,052 --> 00:09:05,323 But I hate old money that's wrinkled and dirty 201 00:09:05,357 --> 00:09:07,196 and got all the diseases on it. 202 00:09:07,229 --> 00:09:09,937 - [Kristin] So it's an incredibly effective way 203 00:09:09,970 --> 00:09:12,411 to amass money and power 204 00:09:12,444 --> 00:09:14,484 if you're trying to build a religious empire. 205 00:09:14,517 --> 00:09:16,188 (gentle music continues) 206 00:09:16,223 --> 00:09:18,094 - When God speaks to you, I know He'll bless you. 207 00:09:18,128 --> 00:09:21,505 - It also is very much prone to abuse, 208 00:09:21,538 --> 00:09:23,210 (gentle music continues) 209 00:09:23,244 --> 00:09:26,185 because anybody who has power 210 00:09:26,219 --> 00:09:29,027 to speak for God can make demands of you. 211 00:09:29,061 --> 00:09:30,498 - Then if you could send a gift of $50. 212 00:09:30,532 --> 00:09:32,136 (gentle music continues) 213 00:09:32,170 --> 00:09:34,377 - And I want you to make a $1,000 vow of faith. 214 00:09:34,410 --> 00:09:38,924 Oh, I know you probably don't have $1,000, but vow it. 215 00:09:38,957 --> 00:09:42,334 - Prosperity preachers are manipulating people to give, 216 00:09:42,367 --> 00:09:45,477 not to bless people, but to line their own pockets. 217 00:09:45,510 --> 00:09:47,382 (gentle music continues) 218 00:09:47,416 --> 00:09:49,288 - It benefits the people who are preaching the gospel. 219 00:09:49,322 --> 00:09:50,692 It doesn't benefit the faithful. 220 00:09:50,725 --> 00:09:52,331 (congregation clapping) 221 00:09:52,364 --> 00:09:55,573 That was the culture that Brian caught in the United States, 222 00:09:55,607 --> 00:09:58,282 and so he came back and really made a shift 223 00:09:58,315 --> 00:10:01,090 from an Assemblies of God Pentecostalism, 224 00:10:01,123 --> 00:10:04,099 which is pretty blue collar, 225 00:10:04,132 --> 00:10:07,008 and really money became the center 226 00:10:07,041 --> 00:10:08,111 of what the church was all about. 227 00:10:08,144 --> 00:10:10,618 (upbeat music) 228 00:10:14,730 --> 00:10:16,470 (upbeat music continues) 229 00:10:16,503 --> 00:10:18,977 - [Announcer] Brian Houston presents "Money". 230 00:10:19,010 --> 00:10:20,315 - There's not one person in this building 231 00:10:20,348 --> 00:10:23,324 who doesn't need more money. 232 00:10:23,357 --> 00:10:24,560 ♪ Wake up, wake up, wake up ♪ 233 00:10:24,594 --> 00:10:25,730 - What an awesome thing it is 234 00:10:25,763 --> 00:10:27,436 to have you as part of our world. 235 00:10:27,469 --> 00:10:29,174 - [Announcer] To purchase any of the products 236 00:10:29,208 --> 00:10:31,548 you've just seen, write to Hillsong Australia. 237 00:10:31,581 --> 00:10:33,086 - [Kristin] "You Need More Money". 238 00:10:33,119 --> 00:10:34,257 - You'll say, I am rich! 239 00:10:35,727 --> 00:10:38,134 - Brian ended up writing that book, "You Need More Money". 240 00:10:39,572 --> 00:10:42,481 I think what he meant was he wanted more money. 241 00:10:42,514 --> 00:10:45,790 - All of a sudden, we're talking about Ferragamo shoes 242 00:10:45,823 --> 00:10:48,064 and Armani suits. (upbeat music continues) 243 00:10:48,097 --> 00:10:49,769 And every time we went anywhere, 244 00:10:49,802 --> 00:10:51,808 we had to get a Gianni Versace tie 245 00:10:51,841 --> 00:10:55,486 or we had to get Gianni Versace socks. 246 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,529 I remember laughing one day and thinking, 247 00:10:58,562 --> 00:11:00,702 Gianni Versace's the patron saint of Hillsong. 248 00:11:00,735 --> 00:11:04,213 (upbeat music continues) 249 00:11:04,247 --> 00:11:07,088 - Then you saw this real deliberate attempt 250 00:11:07,121 --> 00:11:08,392 to reinvent himself in the image 251 00:11:08,425 --> 00:11:10,531 of what he thought would be most attractive 252 00:11:10,565 --> 00:11:11,701 to potential followers, 253 00:11:11,735 --> 00:11:15,246 which was very heavily fake tanned, 254 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:16,650 he's got bleach-white teeth, 255 00:11:16,683 --> 00:11:18,389 he's got ripped arms. 256 00:11:18,422 --> 00:11:19,625 - That's 29! 257 00:11:19,659 --> 00:11:20,561 That's 30! 258 00:11:22,367 --> 00:11:23,169 - [David] He's really the alpha male 259 00:11:23,203 --> 00:11:25,175 in the room, and everyone knows it. 260 00:11:25,209 --> 00:11:27,516 - Would you all say it with me? Spiritually alive? 261 00:11:27,549 --> 00:11:30,291 Spiritually alive! 262 00:11:30,325 --> 00:11:32,497 - They ended up hiring a consultant. 263 00:11:32,531 --> 00:11:35,138 Brian said, "Look, I'm gonna hire this guy. 264 00:11:35,172 --> 00:11:38,315 He costs $50,000, and he's going to teach us 265 00:11:38,349 --> 00:11:40,888 how to raise funds so we can spread the gospel." 266 00:11:40,923 --> 00:11:45,236 Recruitment and growth were very strong focal points. 267 00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:47,743 There also seemed to be an increase 268 00:11:47,776 --> 00:11:50,150 in opportunities to donate. 269 00:11:50,183 --> 00:11:52,658 - Are you serving Jesus tonight? 270 00:11:52,691 --> 00:11:53,928 - The church got bigger. 271 00:11:53,962 --> 00:11:55,934 We moved into the warehouse next door, 272 00:11:55,968 --> 00:11:57,071 knocked the wall down. 273 00:11:57,104 --> 00:11:58,909 And then we moved into the local entertainment center, 274 00:11:58,943 --> 00:12:00,381 1,500 people. 275 00:12:00,415 --> 00:12:02,186 Then we bought more and more equipment. 276 00:12:02,220 --> 00:12:03,657 Then we started recording albums. 277 00:12:03,691 --> 00:12:05,496 We formed a publishing company. 278 00:12:05,530 --> 00:12:08,205 We did all these music books, and it was... 279 00:12:09,742 --> 00:12:10,745 Well, it was exhausting. 280 00:12:10,778 --> 00:12:13,152 (tense music) 281 00:12:14,423 --> 00:12:15,326 - [Alex] You're not there for Jesus. 282 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,599 You're there for Brian Houston. 283 00:12:17,632 --> 00:12:19,338 - Why don't we just stay standing for a moment? 284 00:12:19,372 --> 00:12:21,778 - He shows up on Sunday in a chauffeured car. 285 00:12:21,811 --> 00:12:23,250 He gets in an elevator 286 00:12:23,283 --> 00:12:25,656 that takes him to a private green room. 287 00:12:25,690 --> 00:12:27,863 He loves to hobnob with celebrities. 288 00:12:27,896 --> 00:12:30,571 He goes out into the church space 289 00:12:30,605 --> 00:12:32,377 and he sits in a roped off area. 290 00:12:32,411 --> 00:12:34,417 (tense music continues) 291 00:12:34,450 --> 00:12:35,686 - Brian Houston acted 292 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,829 as a sort of spiritual father to Carl Lentz. 293 00:12:38,862 --> 00:12:40,000 Carl learned a lot from Brian 294 00:12:40,033 --> 00:12:41,638 in terms of how to run a church, 295 00:12:41,671 --> 00:12:43,277 how to operate in a green room 296 00:12:43,310 --> 00:12:44,981 with celebrities and athletes. 297 00:12:45,015 --> 00:12:46,987 Carl also brought something to the table 298 00:12:47,021 --> 00:12:48,559 that Brian didn't have. 299 00:12:48,592 --> 00:12:49,862 Carl, by all accounts, 300 00:12:49,895 --> 00:12:52,604 is a great speaker and a charismatic presence. 301 00:12:52,637 --> 00:12:54,510 Brian's never really been praised for that. 302 00:12:54,543 --> 00:12:56,449 He's been known more for brute force 303 00:12:56,483 --> 00:12:59,959 and for making things happen by whichever means. 304 00:12:59,993 --> 00:13:01,831 - My faith, my strength. 305 00:13:01,865 --> 00:13:03,937 (congregation applauding) 306 00:13:09,455 --> 00:13:12,798 (congregation applauding) 307 00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:20,454 (tense music) 308 00:13:24,466 --> 00:13:27,742 - I met Brian when I was 15 years of age. 309 00:13:27,776 --> 00:13:29,013 Our friendship grew. 310 00:13:29,047 --> 00:13:31,421 And when Brian started Christian Life Centre, 311 00:13:31,454 --> 00:13:33,994 I was asked to go in and pastor the church. 312 00:13:36,101 --> 00:13:37,772 - Back in the day, Christian Life Centre 313 00:13:37,806 --> 00:13:40,781 had some pretty strict boundaries for young people. 314 00:13:40,815 --> 00:13:44,092 (tense music continues) 315 00:13:44,125 --> 00:13:46,633 - Youth group was about resisting the flesh, 316 00:13:46,666 --> 00:13:48,672 resisting those urges 317 00:13:48,705 --> 00:13:51,781 and keeping yourself kind of for marriage. 318 00:13:51,814 --> 00:13:53,954 (tense music continues) 319 00:13:53,987 --> 00:13:56,128 And I actually became pregnant. 320 00:13:58,167 --> 00:14:00,708 My partner was 19 and I was 20. 321 00:14:00,741 --> 00:14:02,414 (tense music continues) 322 00:14:02,447 --> 00:14:03,717 We were really shocked. 323 00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:08,565 We didn't think it was unreasonable to go to the church 324 00:14:08,599 --> 00:14:10,738 and say, "We need help, we need support." 325 00:14:10,771 --> 00:14:12,444 (tense music continues) 326 00:14:12,477 --> 00:14:15,886 But unfortunately, we couldn't have been more wrong. 327 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,166 (tense music continues) 328 00:14:20,201 --> 00:14:23,109 The youth pastor approached us and said to us, 329 00:14:23,142 --> 00:14:27,489 "The next step for you is to stand up in front of your peers 330 00:14:27,522 --> 00:14:29,662 and apologize for what you've done." 331 00:14:29,695 --> 00:14:32,068 (eerie music) 332 00:14:33,807 --> 00:14:37,919 I can't even begin to describe the shock, 333 00:14:39,123 --> 00:14:42,967 the trauma, the embarrassment, the shame 334 00:14:43,001 --> 00:14:44,606 that we went through in that moment. 335 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,144 (eerie music continues) 336 00:14:46,178 --> 00:14:51,058 The look on people's faces, their shock, 337 00:14:52,731 --> 00:14:53,333 their sense of embarrassment. (eerie music continues) 338 00:14:53,367 --> 00:14:55,004 Nobody knew where to look. 339 00:14:56,542 --> 00:14:57,946 They couldn't look at us in the eye. 340 00:14:57,979 --> 00:15:01,123 (eerie music continues) 341 00:15:13,024 --> 00:15:15,766 (eerie music continues) 342 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,106 - This is something that I've only started thinking about 343 00:15:18,140 --> 00:15:19,645 in the last few years, 344 00:15:20,948 --> 00:15:24,226 is the cost of what was taken from me 345 00:15:24,259 --> 00:15:28,939 in terms of this being my very first pregnancy, 346 00:15:28,972 --> 00:15:32,115 my very first child. (eerie music continues) 347 00:15:32,149 --> 00:15:33,887 I was ashamed to be pregnant. 348 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:35,960 (eerie music continues) 349 00:15:35,993 --> 00:15:37,332 All the emotional stuff 350 00:15:37,365 --> 00:15:39,872 that we went through made me physically sick. 351 00:15:39,905 --> 00:15:42,847 I was physically sick throughout my whole pregnancy. 352 00:15:43,950 --> 00:15:47,093 (eerie music continues) 353 00:15:47,126 --> 00:15:50,638 Like, gravely ill. 354 00:15:50,671 --> 00:15:53,246 (eerie music continues) 355 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,820 All we had was this church environment, 356 00:15:55,853 --> 00:15:59,062 and here they were now treating us like pariahs. 357 00:15:59,095 --> 00:16:02,273 (eerie music continues) 358 00:16:18,455 --> 00:16:19,791 - Wow. 359 00:16:19,825 --> 00:16:22,433 Well, to put a person up on a platform 360 00:16:22,467 --> 00:16:25,209 and shame them, and it was in our church? 361 00:16:25,242 --> 00:16:26,345 - Mm-hm. - Wow. 362 00:16:26,379 --> 00:16:28,818 (eerie music continues) 363 00:16:28,852 --> 00:16:30,257 Blatantly wrong. 364 00:16:30,291 --> 00:16:32,931 And if I was responsible for that, 365 00:16:32,964 --> 00:16:35,773 which as the senior pastor, I am, 366 00:16:35,806 --> 00:16:37,879 then I was totally out of order, totally wrong. 367 00:16:40,118 --> 00:16:42,927 Jesus said, leave the 99 and go after the one. 368 00:16:44,833 --> 00:16:48,042 But when I started our church, I have to confess, 369 00:16:49,448 --> 00:16:52,088 I saw crowds, I didn't see individuals. 370 00:16:52,121 --> 00:16:53,226 (eerie music continues) 371 00:16:53,260 --> 00:16:54,329 We have a lot to answer for. 372 00:16:56,535 --> 00:16:58,139 A lot to answer for. 373 00:16:58,172 --> 00:17:01,250 (eerie music continues) 374 00:17:01,284 --> 00:17:04,124 - As far as a sense of holiness, 375 00:17:04,157 --> 00:17:09,005 a sense of accountability to people's internal life, 376 00:17:10,511 --> 00:17:14,020 it was about counting numbers and counting money. 377 00:17:14,054 --> 00:17:15,259 (eerie music continues) 378 00:17:15,292 --> 00:17:19,169 I always felt that Brian was out to prove 379 00:17:19,203 --> 00:17:22,447 that he could go one further than his father. 380 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,889 (eerie music continues) 381 00:17:25,923 --> 00:17:28,365 (car rumbling) 382 00:17:29,267 --> 00:17:32,174 (tense music) 383 00:17:32,209 --> 00:17:35,050 - Brian Houston's father, Frank Houston, 384 00:17:35,083 --> 00:17:38,092 had this very mundane life. 385 00:17:38,126 --> 00:17:39,564 (tense music continues) 386 00:17:39,598 --> 00:17:41,837 It was hard for him to make a living. 387 00:17:41,871 --> 00:17:43,843 There wasn't much money coming in. 388 00:17:43,877 --> 00:17:47,086 And he meets this Pentecostal preacher, 389 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,431 a real fire-and-brimstone charismatic-style preacher, 390 00:17:50,464 --> 00:17:52,001 and something just clicked with him. 391 00:17:52,034 --> 00:17:53,373 (tense music continues) 392 00:17:53,406 --> 00:17:57,919 He could be the living embodiment of God on the stage, 393 00:17:57,952 --> 00:17:59,424 the Holy Spirit racing through him 394 00:17:59,458 --> 00:18:01,430 and impassion a crowd of people 395 00:18:01,464 --> 00:18:02,967 who would follow him anywhere, 396 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,439 who would do anything for him. 397 00:18:04,473 --> 00:18:06,345 (tense music continues) 398 00:18:06,378 --> 00:18:07,982 I think, for Frank, 399 00:18:08,015 --> 00:18:10,524 that was everything that he ever wanted to be. 400 00:18:10,557 --> 00:18:13,097 (tense music continues) 401 00:18:13,131 --> 00:18:15,439 - So Frank started his career as a minister 402 00:18:15,472 --> 00:18:18,348 at a Salvation Army boys' home in New Zealand. 403 00:18:18,381 --> 00:18:20,286 (tense music continues) 404 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:21,924 He left there 405 00:18:21,957 --> 00:18:23,161 and went to a small town outside of Wellington 406 00:18:23,195 --> 00:18:24,332 called Lower Hutt. 407 00:18:24,366 --> 00:18:26,271 (tense music continues) 408 00:18:26,304 --> 00:18:28,478 Lower Hutt was working class, 409 00:18:28,511 --> 00:18:31,018 the people knew each other well, 410 00:18:31,051 --> 00:18:34,362 and he founded an Assemblies of God Church there. 411 00:18:34,396 --> 00:18:36,133 (tense music continues) 412 00:18:36,166 --> 00:18:39,611 - My family attended Lower Hutt Assembly of God Church 413 00:18:39,644 --> 00:18:42,151 for probably 15, 20 years. (tense music continues) 414 00:18:42,184 --> 00:18:44,559 My father was an elder at Lower Hutt AOG, 415 00:18:44,593 --> 00:18:47,401 so he was quite friendly with the Houstons. 416 00:18:47,435 --> 00:18:50,108 (audience applauding) 417 00:18:50,142 --> 00:18:51,514 - Well, good morning, church. 418 00:18:51,547 --> 00:18:52,717 - [Congregation] Good morning. 419 00:18:52,750 --> 00:18:54,556 - How are you today? Everybody happy? 420 00:18:54,589 --> 00:18:56,261 - [Congregation] Yes! 421 00:18:56,294 --> 00:18:57,532 - Assemblies of God at the time that Frank Houston 422 00:18:57,565 --> 00:19:00,774 became involved was not a large church movement 423 00:19:00,807 --> 00:19:05,254 in New Zealand, but Frank Houston wanted the church to grow, 424 00:19:05,288 --> 00:19:07,327 and he was really good at this, too. 425 00:19:07,361 --> 00:19:09,734 (bright music) 426 00:19:09,768 --> 00:19:12,041 From that humble beginning 427 00:19:12,074 --> 00:19:15,183 of just a handful of congregations across the country 428 00:19:15,218 --> 00:19:17,290 to there being about 700 congregations 429 00:19:17,324 --> 00:19:20,031 across the country, it grew. 430 00:19:20,065 --> 00:19:22,707 (congregants clapping) (bright music continues) 431 00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:26,518 And so when it came to appointing a leader 432 00:19:26,552 --> 00:19:28,357 of that church community, 433 00:19:28,391 --> 00:19:29,828 Frank Houston was there and ready for it. 434 00:19:29,861 --> 00:19:31,700 (bright music continues) 435 00:19:31,734 --> 00:19:34,809 There were church elders in Assemblies of God, 436 00:19:34,843 --> 00:19:37,852 and they had degrees of influence themselves, 437 00:19:37,885 --> 00:19:41,296 but Frank Houston didn't want that. 438 00:19:41,329 --> 00:19:44,103 - Instead of voting for board members, 439 00:19:44,137 --> 00:19:46,845 he took that apart and basically said, 440 00:19:46,879 --> 00:19:48,718 I'm gonna handpick the board members. 441 00:19:48,751 --> 00:19:49,487 I am the leader. (bright music continues) 442 00:19:49,521 --> 00:19:52,262 - Matthew 5:1-12. 443 00:19:53,332 --> 00:19:55,304 - He was a very forceful person, 444 00:19:55,338 --> 00:19:59,283 and someone who you never ever wanted to argue with. 445 00:19:59,316 --> 00:20:03,630 - He would throw things at people like cushions and water. 446 00:20:03,663 --> 00:20:07,172 I just remember being very fearful in church. 447 00:20:08,778 --> 00:20:11,854 I think when we heard, oh, don't be alone with Frank, 448 00:20:11,887 --> 00:20:14,529 it was always a bit of a joke because it was like, 449 00:20:14,562 --> 00:20:16,200 well, why wouldn't you be alone with him? 450 00:20:16,234 --> 00:20:19,175 You wanted to hang with God. (bright music continues) 451 00:20:19,209 --> 00:20:20,580 - [Alex] Frank Houston practiced 452 00:20:20,614 --> 00:20:22,787 an oppressive style of leadership. 453 00:20:22,820 --> 00:20:25,462 He shamed people, he humiliated them. 454 00:20:25,495 --> 00:20:26,899 (bright music continues) 455 00:20:26,932 --> 00:20:29,708 - But it's not only Frank, because Brian Houston, 456 00:20:29,741 --> 00:20:31,580 he goes out on his own and he starts 457 00:20:31,613 --> 00:20:33,653 his own congregation up. (bright music continues) 458 00:20:33,686 --> 00:20:35,959 - [Alex] What he does is really mimic 459 00:20:35,992 --> 00:20:37,832 the leadership structure 460 00:20:37,865 --> 00:20:40,507 that Frank had installed at his own church. 461 00:20:40,540 --> 00:20:41,510 (bright music continues) 462 00:20:41,543 --> 00:20:44,218 - There's really interesting parallels there. 463 00:20:44,251 --> 00:20:47,260 All the power in the church centers on its leader. 464 00:20:47,293 --> 00:20:49,501 Frank Houston had no one 465 00:20:49,534 --> 00:20:50,737 that would stop him or question him. 466 00:20:50,771 --> 00:20:53,846 I can't see that at Hillsong, either. 467 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,752 The accountabilities, the safety nets, 468 00:20:55,786 --> 00:20:57,491 they seemed absent in both. 469 00:21:01,570 --> 00:21:02,973 (no audio) 470 00:21:03,007 --> 00:21:04,512 - [Director] Was there ever any rumors about Frank 471 00:21:04,546 --> 00:21:05,782 back in those times? - Rumors? 472 00:21:08,991 --> 00:21:13,305 I think there were question marks. 473 00:21:13,338 --> 00:21:13,840 But, 474 00:21:16,079 --> 00:21:20,694 well, he just seemed to be always surrounded 475 00:21:20,727 --> 00:21:25,509 with young men. (ominous music) 476 00:21:25,542 --> 00:21:27,715 (children chattering) (ominous music continues) 477 00:21:27,748 --> 00:21:32,496 - Frank Houston's influence in the Assemblies of God Church 478 00:21:32,530 --> 00:21:34,702 grew out throughout the country. 479 00:21:34,736 --> 00:21:36,407 (water whooshing) 480 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,884 He often talked about the church that he'd dreamt of. 481 00:21:39,918 --> 00:21:40,954 (ominous music continues) 482 00:21:40,987 --> 00:21:43,361 You could sense that inside of him 483 00:21:43,395 --> 00:21:46,036 was a passion to build a church 484 00:21:46,069 --> 00:21:48,443 in Australia, too. (ominous music continues) 485 00:21:48,476 --> 00:21:50,550 (traffic whooshing) 486 00:21:50,584 --> 00:21:52,723 - Oh, everybody thought that Frank going to Australia 487 00:21:52,756 --> 00:21:54,963 was the greatest thing that ever happened. 488 00:21:54,996 --> 00:21:56,400 It was the call of God. (ominous music continues) 489 00:21:56,434 --> 00:21:58,574 He had to go. He didn't have a choice. 490 00:21:58,608 --> 00:22:00,111 Frank had a vision. 491 00:22:00,144 --> 00:22:01,850 (ominous music continues) (waves whooshing) 492 00:22:01,884 --> 00:22:03,956 Later on, we find out that there was rumblings 493 00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:06,029 in the undergrowth, and Frank ran. 494 00:22:06,062 --> 00:22:08,092 (ominous music continues) 495 00:22:12,850 --> 00:22:15,524 (somber music) 496 00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:19,292 - [David] Sometimes there are moments 497 00:22:19,325 --> 00:22:21,298 in politics that surprise you. (somber music continues) 498 00:22:21,331 --> 00:22:24,507 - Do we need a royal commission? By hell we do. 499 00:22:24,540 --> 00:22:27,550 (audience applauding) 500 00:22:27,583 --> 00:22:31,261 - When finally the announcement was made 501 00:22:31,294 --> 00:22:33,467 two years after that town hall meeting, 502 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:35,473 (somber music continues) 503 00:22:35,506 --> 00:22:37,479 I really couldn't believe it had happened. 504 00:22:39,051 --> 00:22:43,330 - Okay, everybody's ready? (tense music) 505 00:22:45,069 --> 00:22:46,272 I'm here to announce that I will be recommending 506 00:22:46,306 --> 00:22:49,583 to the governor-general that a royal commission be appointed 507 00:22:49,616 --> 00:22:52,925 to inquire into institutional responses 508 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,539 to instances and allegations of child abuse in Australia. 509 00:22:57,573 --> 00:22:58,576 (tense music continues) 510 00:22:58,610 --> 00:23:00,481 - The phone just started ringing, 511 00:23:00,515 --> 00:23:03,323 and there was survivor after survivor after survivor 512 00:23:03,357 --> 00:23:08,072 calling in tears saying, "I can't believe it's happened." 513 00:23:08,105 --> 00:23:10,378 This was it, this was the chance 514 00:23:10,411 --> 00:23:13,387 to finally hold any institution 515 00:23:13,420 --> 00:23:15,561 that had abused kids to account. 516 00:23:15,594 --> 00:23:17,232 (tense music continues) 517 00:23:17,265 --> 00:23:19,271 What was happening in Australia was a microcosm 518 00:23:19,305 --> 00:23:22,548 of what we saw happening around the rest of the planet. 519 00:23:22,582 --> 00:23:25,423 - Devastating detail how the past leadership 520 00:23:25,456 --> 00:23:27,496 of the Southern Baptist Convention 521 00:23:27,529 --> 00:23:30,037 ignored sexual abuse allegations 522 00:23:30,071 --> 00:23:32,177 for the better part of two decades. 523 00:23:32,210 --> 00:23:34,651 - Thousands of former Boy Scout volunteers 524 00:23:34,684 --> 00:23:39,131 accused of sexually abusing children between 1944 and 2016. 525 00:23:39,165 --> 00:23:41,304 - For more than 150 years, an old system 526 00:23:41,337 --> 00:23:42,575 of boarding schools. 527 00:23:42,608 --> 00:23:44,280 - [Reporter] Which priests were known 528 00:23:44,313 --> 00:23:45,316 to be the abusive priests? (tense music continues) 529 00:23:45,349 --> 00:23:47,924 - This was a global failure. 530 00:23:47,957 --> 00:23:51,468 It felt like the moment had arrived around the world. 531 00:23:52,738 --> 00:23:56,316 So much of the story up to that point 532 00:23:56,349 --> 00:23:58,222 had been about the Catholic Church, 533 00:23:58,255 --> 00:23:59,993 and there's a reason for that. 534 00:24:00,027 --> 00:24:02,635 It's the most dominant church in Australia. 535 00:24:02,668 --> 00:24:04,340 And then eventually, 536 00:24:04,373 --> 00:24:07,349 we had survivors and victims of Hillsong. 537 00:24:07,382 --> 00:24:10,592 (tense music continues) 538 00:24:10,626 --> 00:24:13,033 - One of the most notable voices was an Australian man 539 00:24:13,066 --> 00:24:15,540 who was identified by the initials AHA. 540 00:24:17,145 --> 00:24:18,015 - I call AHA. 541 00:24:20,756 --> 00:24:24,133 Mr. AHA, I wonder if you could 542 00:24:25,704 --> 00:24:28,278 please read your statement out to the Royal Commission. 543 00:24:28,312 --> 00:24:30,218 - [AHA] I'll do my best. 544 00:24:30,251 --> 00:24:32,157 (ominous music) 545 00:24:32,190 --> 00:24:35,767 In January 1970, I recall that Pastor Frank 546 00:24:35,801 --> 00:24:39,646 and his son, Brian, stayed with us for almost a whole week. 547 00:24:39,679 --> 00:24:41,585 I'm aware of the date 548 00:24:41,619 --> 00:24:44,661 because Pastor Frank signed and dated my mother's bible. 549 00:24:45,731 --> 00:24:48,673 (ominous music continues) 550 00:24:48,706 --> 00:24:53,353 - My wife told me about the Australian royal commission, 551 00:24:54,223 --> 00:24:57,432 and I had no idea 552 00:24:57,465 --> 00:24:59,371 about what it was all about. 553 00:24:59,405 --> 00:25:00,676 - [Beckett] Mr. AHA, could you read 554 00:25:00,709 --> 00:25:03,483 the entry for 5th of November? 555 00:25:03,517 --> 00:25:05,122 - I listened very intently 556 00:25:05,156 --> 00:25:07,663 and downloaded all the documents associated with it, 557 00:25:07,697 --> 00:25:11,341 and started to really, really get into it 558 00:25:11,374 --> 00:25:14,416 and understand what had happened and what it was all about. 559 00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:17,693 - [AHA] Pastor Frank would creep into my room late at night, 560 00:25:17,727 --> 00:25:19,899 and then I would wake up with him standing over me. 561 00:25:19,933 --> 00:25:21,739 (ominous music continues) 562 00:25:21,772 --> 00:25:24,614 He was touching me inappropriately. 563 00:25:24,648 --> 00:25:27,556 I would be petrified and would lay very still. 564 00:25:28,793 --> 00:25:30,599 I could not speak while this was happening 565 00:25:30,632 --> 00:25:32,270 and felt like I couldn't breathe. 566 00:25:32,304 --> 00:25:33,741 (ominous music continues) 567 00:25:33,775 --> 00:25:35,881 I'm not sure how long he would stay in the room with me, 568 00:25:35,914 --> 00:25:37,319 but it felt like forever. 569 00:25:37,352 --> 00:25:39,191 (ominous music continues) 570 00:25:39,224 --> 00:25:40,929 - This is exactly what happened to me. 571 00:25:40,962 --> 00:25:44,506 (ominous music continues) 572 00:25:44,540 --> 00:25:46,245 When I was eight years old, 573 00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:48,920 my parents started holding a Bible study in our home. 574 00:25:48,953 --> 00:25:50,491 (ominous music continues) 575 00:25:50,524 --> 00:25:52,698 Frank would come for a meal beforehand, 576 00:25:52,732 --> 00:25:55,406 and then us kids would be sent to bed. 577 00:25:55,439 --> 00:25:58,783 (ominous music continues) 578 00:26:00,689 --> 00:26:02,260 This thing came into my bedroom 579 00:26:02,293 --> 00:26:04,667 that I called the black shadow. 580 00:26:04,701 --> 00:26:08,478 And I would sense it there first, 581 00:26:08,512 --> 00:26:10,919 and then I'd feel its weight on top of me 582 00:26:10,952 --> 00:26:13,728 and I'd feel breath on my face. 583 00:26:16,001 --> 00:26:17,405 (ominous music continues) And I was 584 00:26:24,594 --> 00:26:25,496 fondled. 585 00:26:25,529 --> 00:26:28,806 (ominous music continues) 586 00:26:33,588 --> 00:26:36,730 I always had a suspicion that something had happened, 587 00:26:36,764 --> 00:26:38,235 that it was Frank, that it was 588 00:26:39,806 --> 00:26:42,380 that sexual interaction that happened when I was young, 589 00:26:42,413 --> 00:26:43,316 when I was eight, 590 00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:45,422 but I didn't really know. 591 00:26:45,456 --> 00:26:47,362 I didn't really know for a long, long time. 592 00:26:47,395 --> 00:26:48,866 (ominous music continues) 593 00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:52,745 But when I read the Australian royal commission testimony, 594 00:26:52,778 --> 00:26:57,626 that was the moment when I knew without a shadow of doubt 595 00:26:57,660 --> 00:27:00,735 that the black shadow was Frank Houston. 596 00:27:00,769 --> 00:27:04,346 (ominous music continues) 597 00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:10,331 - [AHA] I was so ashamed of the abuse 598 00:27:10,364 --> 00:27:11,969 that I kept it inside for many years 599 00:27:12,002 --> 00:27:15,111 and did not tell anyone. (ominous music continues) 600 00:27:15,144 --> 00:27:19,458 It was only on or about 1978 when I was about 16 years old 601 00:27:19,491 --> 00:27:22,601 that I told my mother about the abuse. 602 00:27:22,635 --> 00:27:24,406 My mother was still heavily involved 603 00:27:24,439 --> 00:27:25,610 in the church at that time. 604 00:27:26,947 --> 00:27:29,153 All of her friends were involved in the church, 605 00:27:29,186 --> 00:27:30,859 and the Houstons were considered 606 00:27:30,892 --> 00:27:33,701 to be almost like royalty in those circles. 607 00:27:33,734 --> 00:27:34,704 (ominous music continues) 608 00:27:34,737 --> 00:27:36,810 After I told her about the abuse, 609 00:27:38,113 --> 00:27:41,022 my mother said words to the following effect. 610 00:27:41,056 --> 00:27:43,698 "You don't want to be responsible for turning people 611 00:27:43,731 --> 00:27:45,904 from the church and sending them to hell." 612 00:27:45,937 --> 00:27:50,819 (ominous music continues) (fire crackling) 613 00:27:51,822 --> 00:27:53,928 - I told my parents about it, 614 00:27:53,961 --> 00:27:56,067 and they thought it was a nightmare. 615 00:27:56,101 --> 00:27:59,879 They were so naive and so enamored about Frank 616 00:27:59,912 --> 00:28:02,185 that that was not even on their radar. 617 00:28:02,219 --> 00:28:03,624 (ominous music continues) 618 00:28:03,658 --> 00:28:06,566 And I remember taking a piece of wood to bed, 619 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,906 a four by two, so I could bang on the wall 620 00:28:08,939 --> 00:28:11,715 when the black shadow came so they could hear me. 621 00:28:11,748 --> 00:28:14,155 (ominous music continues) 622 00:28:14,188 --> 00:28:18,167 And it happened 623 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,471 quite a few times. 624 00:28:19,504 --> 00:28:22,881 (ominous music continues) 625 00:28:24,854 --> 00:28:28,933 This is a photograph of me taken in 1962. 626 00:28:28,966 --> 00:28:30,236 I was eight years old. 627 00:28:30,270 --> 00:28:33,045 (ominous music continues) 628 00:28:33,078 --> 00:28:36,154 The boy in this picture is a boy 629 00:28:36,187 --> 00:28:37,124 that had already 630 00:28:39,966 --> 00:28:43,744 encountered childhood sexual abuse. 631 00:28:43,778 --> 00:28:47,120 (ominous music continues) 632 00:28:48,626 --> 00:28:50,799 I didn't really have any friends. 633 00:28:52,771 --> 00:28:56,583 It would be unlikely that anything I said would be believed. 634 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,321 (somber music) (traffic whooshing) 635 00:29:12,162 --> 00:29:15,204 (heartbeat thudding) 636 00:29:15,238 --> 00:29:18,213 - I'd been reading survivor blogs. 637 00:29:18,247 --> 00:29:20,722 One of the things that I came across 638 00:29:20,755 --> 00:29:23,095 that I really wasn't expecting to 639 00:29:23,128 --> 00:29:26,673 was just how much conservative Evangelicals 640 00:29:26,706 --> 00:29:28,043 emphasized authority. 641 00:29:29,381 --> 00:29:31,286 You show your obedience to God 642 00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:35,031 by being faithful and submissive to people 643 00:29:35,064 --> 00:29:37,204 that God has placed in charge of you. 644 00:29:37,237 --> 00:29:39,043 (tense music) 645 00:29:39,076 --> 00:29:43,055 They set people up for abuse of leadership. 646 00:29:45,261 --> 00:29:47,836 And when I listened to the voices of survivors, 647 00:29:47,870 --> 00:29:50,812 members of their own communities, their own churches, 648 00:29:50,845 --> 00:29:55,291 sometimes even their own families questioned their stories 649 00:29:56,796 --> 00:29:59,772 in order to continue to protect the ministry. 650 00:29:59,805 --> 00:30:03,851 (tense music continues) 651 00:30:03,884 --> 00:30:05,422 - There was a number of young boys 652 00:30:05,455 --> 00:30:10,036 who said things about Frank Houston, 653 00:30:11,339 --> 00:30:14,248 criticism of him in a way that resulted 654 00:30:14,281 --> 00:30:16,054 in them either being thrown out of the church 655 00:30:16,087 --> 00:30:19,966 or being ostracized by leadership. 656 00:30:19,999 --> 00:30:21,805 (tense music continues) 657 00:30:21,838 --> 00:30:25,984 There was an occasion where one young man came in 658 00:30:26,017 --> 00:30:28,959 and said Frank Houston had been doing physical things to him 659 00:30:28,993 --> 00:30:31,299 that he didn't like 660 00:30:31,332 --> 00:30:33,774 and accused him in front of one of the other pastors. 661 00:30:33,807 --> 00:30:35,445 The other pastor actually physically punched 662 00:30:35,479 --> 00:30:37,986 this kid in the face and said, 663 00:30:38,020 --> 00:30:41,296 "Don't you ever, ever talk about our pastor like that." 664 00:30:41,329 --> 00:30:44,974 (tense music continues) 665 00:30:45,007 --> 00:30:46,980 - Nobody came forward to the police, 666 00:30:48,050 --> 00:30:51,192 a nd I think that says a lot about his hold on the police. 667 00:30:51,225 --> 00:30:52,362 (tense music continues) 668 00:30:52,395 --> 00:30:55,840 Any accounts of abuse most certainly would've been squashed 669 00:30:55,873 --> 00:30:59,819 by Frank and the people that he sort of lorded over 670 00:30:59,852 --> 00:31:01,457 at the AOG. (tense music continues) 671 00:31:01,490 --> 00:31:03,463 You know, we're gonna keep this in the church. 672 00:31:06,170 --> 00:31:09,982 - The motivation to keep Frank Houston's offending quiet 673 00:31:10,016 --> 00:31:12,022 would've been huge. (tense music continues) 674 00:31:12,055 --> 00:31:14,094 For New Zealand Assemblies of God, 675 00:31:14,128 --> 00:31:17,471 they were protecting something that was all about the past. 676 00:31:18,474 --> 00:31:20,212 For Australia Assemblies of God, 677 00:31:20,246 --> 00:31:22,318 they were protecting the future, 678 00:31:22,352 --> 00:31:24,358 and that future was huge. 679 00:31:24,391 --> 00:31:27,602 (tense music continues) 680 00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:30,878 (keyboard clacking) 681 00:31:30,912 --> 00:31:35,358 I started looking into Frank Houston and Assemblies of God 682 00:31:36,629 --> 00:31:37,833 as a result of the Australian commission. 683 00:31:39,370 --> 00:31:42,412 There were documents that were put into evidence 684 00:31:42,445 --> 00:31:44,351 that spoke of things happening in New Zealand 685 00:31:44,385 --> 00:31:46,290 that had never been written about. 686 00:31:46,324 --> 00:31:47,360 (tense music continues) 687 00:31:47,394 --> 00:31:49,333 When Frank left in '75, 688 00:31:49,366 --> 00:31:53,680 he left behind decades of sexual violence against children. 689 00:31:53,714 --> 00:31:55,987 (tense music continues) 690 00:31:56,020 --> 00:31:57,323 I thought I'd messed up 691 00:31:57,357 --> 00:31:59,062 the way I was searching our news archives 692 00:31:59,096 --> 00:32:02,238 because I couldn't find anything about Frank Houston. 693 00:32:02,272 --> 00:32:03,944 (tense music continues) 694 00:32:03,977 --> 00:32:06,653 It was really alarming. (tense music continues) 695 00:32:06,686 --> 00:32:10,129 As it turned out, it hadn't really been written about. 696 00:32:12,435 --> 00:32:16,481 There was a vacuum, and so that's what I sought to fill. 697 00:32:16,515 --> 00:32:19,323 (tense music continues) 698 00:32:19,356 --> 00:32:22,365 - When I go back and look at the timeline of events, 699 00:32:23,201 --> 00:32:25,007 it's almost surreal. 700 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,649 (eerie music) 701 00:32:27,682 --> 00:32:30,156 I was raised in Hillsong culture of forgive and forget, 702 00:32:30,189 --> 00:32:32,262 move on, judge not, 703 00:32:33,567 --> 00:32:35,404 for he who hasn't sinned cast the first stone. 704 00:32:36,709 --> 00:32:39,483 And the more I've learned about Frank, 705 00:32:39,517 --> 00:32:42,158 I'm realizing something is so wrong here. 706 00:32:42,192 --> 00:32:43,697 (eerie music continues) 707 00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:45,703 I feel the responsibility as a Christian to stand up 708 00:32:45,736 --> 00:32:47,609 and actually start speaking out against the abuse. 709 00:32:47,642 --> 00:32:51,052 (eerie music continues) 710 00:32:52,355 --> 00:32:54,361 The Royal Commission shed light on the fact 711 00:32:54,394 --> 00:32:57,370 that Hillsong was not honest to their own congregants. 712 00:32:57,403 --> 00:32:58,675 (eerie music continues) 713 00:32:58,709 --> 00:33:01,584 It really helped start me on a trajectory going, 714 00:33:01,618 --> 00:33:03,154 what else are they not telling us? 715 00:33:03,188 --> 00:33:06,530 (eerie music continues) 716 00:33:06,566 --> 00:33:08,572 (water whooshing) 717 00:33:08,605 --> 00:33:10,409 - Trouble starts for Frank and Brian 718 00:33:10,442 --> 00:33:12,415 really in November of 1998. 719 00:33:12,448 --> 00:33:14,488 (tense music) 720 00:33:14,521 --> 00:33:18,433 When AHA was a teenager, he told his mother about the abuse, 721 00:33:18,466 --> 00:33:20,575 and she refused to believe him. 722 00:33:20,608 --> 00:33:22,312 And then, 20 years later, 723 00:33:22,345 --> 00:33:25,623 she reported the abuse to an AOG pastor. 724 00:33:25,656 --> 00:33:26,558 - [AHA] My mother called me and told me 725 00:33:26,593 --> 00:33:28,799 she had a conversation with Pastor Mumford 726 00:33:28,832 --> 00:33:31,674 and told him that I had been sexually abused 727 00:33:31,708 --> 00:33:34,114 by Pastor Frank. (tense music continues) 728 00:33:34,147 --> 00:33:36,623 Both Pastor Taylor and Pastor Mumford questioned me 729 00:33:36,656 --> 00:33:39,129 about the allegations I had made. 730 00:33:39,162 --> 00:33:41,804 They tried to tell me that what I was saying was not true, 731 00:33:41,838 --> 00:33:44,311 and they both said words to the following effect. 732 00:33:44,344 --> 00:33:47,253 "Frank Houston couldn't have done that, he's a good man." 733 00:33:47,287 --> 00:33:50,129 (tense music continues) 734 00:33:50,162 --> 00:33:54,241 - Frank first becomes aware of the accusation that month. 735 00:33:54,274 --> 00:33:55,913 And instead of doing anything about it, 736 00:33:55,946 --> 00:33:58,153 Frank decides he's going to take a holiday. 737 00:33:58,186 --> 00:33:59,189 (children laughing) (waves whooshing) 738 00:33:59,222 --> 00:34:01,462 In fact, he goes on two holidays. 739 00:34:01,495 --> 00:34:04,471 Then in the first week of May, 1999, 740 00:34:04,504 --> 00:34:08,852 Frank unexpectedly and very suddenly gives the keys 741 00:34:08,885 --> 00:34:11,560 to his church to his son, Brian Houston. 742 00:34:12,864 --> 00:34:15,873 AHA becomes fed up and really doesn't think 743 00:34:15,906 --> 00:34:17,343 that anybody in the church community 744 00:34:17,377 --> 00:34:19,618 is going to believe him or take him seriously, 745 00:34:19,651 --> 00:34:22,191 so he tells an AOG pastor 746 00:34:22,225 --> 00:34:25,367 that he's considering going to the authorities. 747 00:34:25,401 --> 00:34:27,273 (tense music continues) 748 00:34:27,306 --> 00:34:28,945 That's when things start to happen pretty quickly. 749 00:34:28,979 --> 00:34:31,218 (tense music continues) 750 00:34:31,252 --> 00:34:34,930 That same week, Brian Houston calls his father 751 00:34:34,963 --> 00:34:36,601 into his office 752 00:34:36,636 --> 00:34:39,645 and learns about the case officially for the first time. 753 00:34:39,678 --> 00:34:41,415 Now, there are no minutes from the meeting. 754 00:34:41,449 --> 00:34:42,821 There are no notes from the meeting. 755 00:34:42,854 --> 00:34:44,391 There were no witnesses to the meeting. 756 00:34:44,424 --> 00:34:45,896 (tense music continues) 757 00:34:45,930 --> 00:34:47,902 - It was the worst meeting I ever had. 758 00:34:47,936 --> 00:34:48,738 I confronted him. 759 00:34:50,042 --> 00:34:51,948 He went extremely dry in the mouth 760 00:34:51,981 --> 00:34:55,491 and said, "Yes, these things did happen." 761 00:34:55,524 --> 00:34:56,996 - [Beckett] Well, I'll just to stop you there, 762 00:34:57,029 --> 00:34:58,935 because that's the point I wanted to ask you about. 763 00:34:58,969 --> 00:35:01,643 What did he actually confess to? 764 00:35:03,683 --> 00:35:04,686 - He confessed essentially to fondling genitals. 765 00:35:08,429 --> 00:35:11,438 - [Beckett] All right, of one or more children? 766 00:35:11,472 --> 00:35:12,609 (tense music continues) 767 00:35:12,643 --> 00:35:14,649 - We were only talking about that one. 768 00:35:14,683 --> 00:35:18,059 At that time, he told me that it was a one-off occasion. 769 00:35:18,092 --> 00:35:18,995 (tense music continues) 770 00:35:19,029 --> 00:35:20,399 - [AHA] The abuse in my home 771 00:35:20,432 --> 00:35:21,871 and at the different church meetings 772 00:35:21,904 --> 00:35:25,683 continued over a period of years until I reached puberty. 773 00:35:25,716 --> 00:35:28,624 What Pastor Frank did to me destroyed my childhood. 774 00:35:29,862 --> 00:35:32,068 The abuse has had longterm effects on me. 775 00:35:32,101 --> 00:35:33,974 Late in the night, I still get flashbacks 776 00:35:34,007 --> 00:35:35,779 of Pastor Frank in my bedroom 777 00:35:35,813 --> 00:35:38,453 and see his face floating around me. 778 00:35:38,486 --> 00:35:41,395 I have difficulties being in the presence of elderly men. 779 00:35:41,428 --> 00:35:43,870 I also have difficulty in being intimate with my wife. 780 00:35:43,904 --> 00:35:45,575 (tense music continues) 781 00:35:45,608 --> 00:35:47,982 I can't relate to my own children. 782 00:35:48,016 --> 00:35:49,922 I find it awkward to hug my own sons 783 00:35:49,955 --> 00:35:51,458 because I don't want them getting used 784 00:35:51,492 --> 00:35:53,967 to another male hugging them. (tense music continues) 785 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,644 - [Beckett] Your father admitted to one act 786 00:35:57,678 --> 00:36:00,519 or act on one occasion, I think you said a one off. 787 00:36:00,553 --> 00:36:02,124 - No, I think was one act, one off. 788 00:36:02,158 --> 00:36:05,534 One-off act, I think he said. (tense music continues) 789 00:36:05,568 --> 00:36:08,109 - Brian Houston's always said, "That's what I was told. 790 00:36:08,142 --> 00:36:09,079 That's what I believed. 791 00:36:09,112 --> 00:36:11,151 I didn't know anything else." 792 00:36:11,185 --> 00:36:14,796 But Assemblies of God had access to all the people 793 00:36:14,830 --> 00:36:16,200 and all the records. (tense music continues) 794 00:36:16,233 --> 00:36:19,745 And if I found all of these cases of sexual abuse 795 00:36:19,778 --> 00:36:21,917 by Frank Houston without those, 796 00:36:23,622 --> 00:36:25,527 I can't imagine how many they would find. 797 00:36:26,766 --> 00:36:27,466 (no audio) 798 00:36:30,242 --> 00:36:32,884 (somber music) 799 00:36:38,132 --> 00:36:40,472 As I was looking through Frank's life 800 00:36:40,505 --> 00:36:42,981 and trying to step back through the years, 801 00:36:43,014 --> 00:36:45,487 I sought out Salvation Army. 802 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,093 (somber music continues) 803 00:36:47,126 --> 00:36:51,505 And I said, "I know he was working at Temuka boys' home. 804 00:36:53,044 --> 00:36:55,886 Was there anything on your files or anything on your records 805 00:36:55,919 --> 00:36:58,126 that indicated something untoward? 806 00:36:58,159 --> 00:36:59,563 (somber music continues) 807 00:36:59,597 --> 00:37:03,107 Now, I couldn't believe it when they came back 808 00:37:03,141 --> 00:37:05,816 and said there was an allegation 809 00:37:05,849 --> 00:37:09,292 of sexual offending against children by Frank Houston 810 00:37:09,325 --> 00:37:11,098 when he was at Temuka boys' home. 811 00:37:11,131 --> 00:37:14,642 (somber music continues) 812 00:37:17,751 --> 00:37:20,828 At that point, Frank Houston would've been in his early 20s. 813 00:37:20,861 --> 00:37:22,298 (somber music continues) 814 00:37:22,331 --> 00:37:23,970 But whatever happened 815 00:37:24,003 --> 00:37:27,815 in the Salvation Army never seems to be properly addressed. 816 00:37:27,849 --> 00:37:31,125 (somber music continues) 817 00:37:32,294 --> 00:37:34,334 Frank Houston, throughout his career, 818 00:37:34,367 --> 00:37:35,738 would take his ministry 819 00:37:35,772 --> 00:37:38,680 into the poorer parts of New Zealand 820 00:37:38,714 --> 00:37:41,790 and across the Pacific to very poor Pacific islands. 821 00:37:41,824 --> 00:37:43,027 (tense music continues) 822 00:37:43,060 --> 00:37:44,732 - [Frank] It's been my privilege in my lifetime 823 00:37:44,765 --> 00:37:46,638 to travel around the world preaching the gospel 824 00:37:46,671 --> 00:37:47,774 in many countries. 825 00:37:48,811 --> 00:37:50,918 And I have actually preached 826 00:37:50,951 --> 00:37:54,695 to the red, the yellow, the black, and the white. 827 00:37:54,728 --> 00:37:57,303 I've preached to the Maoris all over New Zealand. 828 00:37:57,336 --> 00:37:58,640 (somber music continues) 829 00:37:58,674 --> 00:38:01,951 (water whooshing) 830 00:38:01,984 --> 00:38:06,296 - I've no doubt whatsoever that when Frank Houston traveled, 831 00:38:06,330 --> 00:38:08,336 he sought out victims. 832 00:38:08,369 --> 00:38:11,378 (somber music continues) (keys tapping) 833 00:38:11,411 --> 00:38:13,819 What we know now, looking back, 834 00:38:13,853 --> 00:38:18,032 that period from 1945 through to 1975 is filled 835 00:38:18,065 --> 00:38:22,812 with enough allegations of sexual violence against children 836 00:38:22,846 --> 00:38:27,727 to conceive of Frank Houston as a lifelong predator. 837 00:38:29,032 --> 00:38:32,441 We're talking at the least 30 years 838 00:38:32,474 --> 00:38:34,883 of sexual offending against children. 839 00:38:34,916 --> 00:38:39,797 (somber music continues) (keys tapping) 840 00:38:43,507 --> 00:38:46,416 (plane whooshing) 841 00:38:47,854 --> 00:38:48,892 - [Beckett] Let's move onto the meeting 842 00:38:48,925 --> 00:38:52,769 of special executive on the 22nd of December, 1999. 843 00:38:52,802 --> 00:38:55,076 You know the meeting at Sydney Airport 844 00:38:55,110 --> 00:38:56,916 that I'm referring to? - Yes. 845 00:38:56,949 --> 00:38:59,823 (tense music) 846 00:38:59,857 --> 00:39:04,070 - So in December, 1999, there's an emergency AOG meeting 847 00:39:04,103 --> 00:39:06,109 in the Qantas Lounge at Sydney Airport. 848 00:39:06,143 --> 00:39:08,015 (tense music continues) 849 00:39:08,049 --> 00:39:12,094 Brian is there as both the investigator of the case 850 00:39:12,127 --> 00:39:14,835 and the son of the accused abuser, 851 00:39:14,868 --> 00:39:16,976 and he's at the helm of the narrative. 852 00:39:17,009 --> 00:39:17,911 - I told them the story. 853 00:39:17,945 --> 00:39:19,883 I burst into tears, sobbed. 854 00:39:19,918 --> 00:39:21,355 There was no way I could chair that meeting, 855 00:39:21,388 --> 00:39:24,430 because I was a mess. (tense music continues) 856 00:39:24,464 --> 00:39:27,272 - The way that Brian frames these allegations 857 00:39:27,306 --> 00:39:29,546 for the other members of the AOG 858 00:39:29,580 --> 00:39:31,886 is the same way that Frank framed it for him. 859 00:39:31,919 --> 00:39:34,862 One victim in New Zealand 35 years ago. 860 00:39:34,895 --> 00:39:37,336 - I told them everything I knew, I think, 861 00:39:37,369 --> 00:39:39,843 in terms of the fondling, 862 00:39:39,877 --> 00:39:42,351 you know, the nature of it at that level. 863 00:39:44,993 --> 00:39:48,469 - What's really significant there is that, at that meeting, 864 00:39:48,502 --> 00:39:51,646 there were 10, 12 leading figures 865 00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:53,250 of Pentecostal churches in Australia. 866 00:39:53,284 --> 00:39:54,888 (tense music continues) 867 00:39:54,922 --> 00:39:58,099 This group of men who knew the Houstons well 868 00:39:58,132 --> 00:40:02,411 decided amongst themselves that what Frank Houston did 869 00:40:02,444 --> 00:40:04,384 was a moral transgression, 870 00:40:04,417 --> 00:40:07,159 not a serious criminal offense. 871 00:40:07,192 --> 00:40:09,198 - So the various times I spoke, 872 00:40:09,232 --> 00:40:11,505 the wording wouldn't have been exactly the same. 873 00:40:13,043 --> 00:40:15,049 And it's possible that the weakest of those, 874 00:40:15,083 --> 00:40:18,259 I might've said the words moral failure. 875 00:40:18,292 --> 00:40:19,930 (tense music continues) 876 00:40:19,963 --> 00:40:22,204 - This wasn't a spiritual failing. 877 00:40:22,237 --> 00:40:26,985 This was a series of violent criminal acts against children, 878 00:40:27,019 --> 00:40:28,924 and the church knew about it and did nothing. 879 00:40:30,161 --> 00:40:32,669 (tense music) 880 00:40:32,702 --> 00:40:35,143 - [Alex] The AOG decides not to go to the police. 881 00:40:35,176 --> 00:40:36,714 Frank's credentials are not revoked. 882 00:40:36,747 --> 00:40:38,653 The matter is not to be made public. 883 00:40:38,687 --> 00:40:40,425 - That's the Hillsong playbook. 884 00:40:40,458 --> 00:40:43,434 If someone complains, you diminish it. 885 00:40:43,467 --> 00:40:44,303 They're an irritant. (tense music continues) 886 00:40:44,337 --> 00:40:48,182 Maybe you order a confidential inquiry. 887 00:40:48,215 --> 00:40:49,586 The information goes no further. 888 00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:52,294 It's held in a small group of people. 889 00:40:52,327 --> 00:40:55,370 Whoever the victim is has to go. 890 00:40:55,403 --> 00:40:56,406 (tense music continues) 891 00:40:56,439 --> 00:40:58,547 - [AHA] I eventually agreed to meet Pastor Frank 892 00:40:58,580 --> 00:41:00,586 on or about early 2000. 893 00:41:00,619 --> 00:41:03,360 The meeting was held at McDonald's restaurant 894 00:41:03,394 --> 00:41:06,403 of Thornleigh just up Pennant Hills Road. 895 00:41:06,436 --> 00:41:08,108 (tense music continues) 896 00:41:08,142 --> 00:41:12,454 - What did Pastor Frank want from you during that meeting? 897 00:41:13,792 --> 00:41:14,595 - [AHA] He wanted me to forgive him. 898 00:41:14,628 --> 00:41:16,132 - [Beckett] You were asked to sign 899 00:41:16,166 --> 00:41:18,539 a food-stained napkin, is that right? 900 00:41:18,573 --> 00:41:19,810 - [AHA] Yes. (tense music continues) 901 00:41:19,843 --> 00:41:21,582 Words were said to the following effect. 902 00:41:21,616 --> 00:41:25,326 "If you put your signature there, I'll give you the 10,000." 903 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,232 And at that stage, sir, I just wanna tell you 904 00:41:27,266 --> 00:41:28,637 that I was in a state of panic. 905 00:41:28,670 --> 00:41:30,275 I just scribbled my name on it, 906 00:41:30,308 --> 00:41:33,250 and Frank kept badgering me about the forgiveness. 907 00:41:33,284 --> 00:41:34,353 (tense music continues) 908 00:41:34,387 --> 00:41:36,092 About two months after my meeting 909 00:41:36,126 --> 00:41:39,535 with Pastor Frank at McDonald's, I telephoned Brian Houston 910 00:41:39,570 --> 00:41:43,548 as I had not yet received any money from Pastor Frank. 911 00:41:43,582 --> 00:41:45,654 We had a conversation to the following effect. 912 00:41:45,688 --> 00:41:47,392 (tense music continues) 913 00:41:47,426 --> 00:41:50,603 Me, "What's happening with the payment I was promised? 914 00:41:50,636 --> 00:41:53,143 I agreed to forgive your father." 915 00:41:53,177 --> 00:41:57,624 Brian, "Yes, okay, I'll get the money to you. 916 00:41:57,657 --> 00:42:00,531 There's no problem. (tense music continues) 917 00:42:00,566 --> 00:42:03,474 You know, it's your fault all of this happened. 918 00:42:03,507 --> 00:42:04,778 You tempted my father." 919 00:42:04,811 --> 00:42:09,158 (tense music continues) 920 00:42:09,191 --> 00:42:11,699 - Shortly after the $10,000 payout, 921 00:42:11,732 --> 00:42:13,137 Brian Houston really starts 922 00:42:13,170 --> 00:42:16,179 with a pretty vigorous rebranding effort. 923 00:42:16,212 --> 00:42:17,583 - It's a church growing so quickly 924 00:42:17,617 --> 00:42:20,626 that buildings struggle to contain the increase. 925 00:42:20,659 --> 00:42:23,233 - Christian Life Centre is renamed Hillsong, 926 00:42:23,267 --> 00:42:25,708 and the Assemblies of God is relabeled 927 00:42:25,741 --> 00:42:27,814 as the Australian Christian Churches. 928 00:42:27,847 --> 00:42:29,285 (tense music continues) 929 00:42:29,318 --> 00:42:31,625 Brian has really done everything he can 930 00:42:31,659 --> 00:42:33,464 to really kind of parse his words 931 00:42:33,497 --> 00:42:36,272 and manipulate, you know, meaning and syntax 932 00:42:36,306 --> 00:42:39,883 to say the abuse didn't happen at Hillsong, 933 00:42:39,916 --> 00:42:41,756 it happened at Christian Life Centres. 934 00:42:41,789 --> 00:42:44,598 And it's sort of apropos of nothing. 935 00:42:47,472 --> 00:42:49,980 - When these things happened, Hillsong didn't exist at all. 936 00:42:50,013 --> 00:42:51,886 It was long before Hillsong existed. 937 00:42:51,919 --> 00:42:53,524 This was not about Hillsong. 938 00:42:53,558 --> 00:42:55,697 This was not about the Australian Assemblies of God. 939 00:42:55,731 --> 00:42:59,743 This payment was between Frank and AHA. 940 00:43:02,985 --> 00:43:04,089 - [AHA] No one believed my story, 941 00:43:04,122 --> 00:43:07,499 and others put pressure on me to keep my mouth shut. 942 00:43:07,532 --> 00:43:10,909 I felt that the church's response was completely inadequate, 943 00:43:10,943 --> 00:43:13,585 and I have received absolutely no support, 944 00:43:13,618 --> 00:43:17,630 no counseling, apology, or acknowledgement of the abuse. 945 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,505 (eerie music) 946 00:43:20,538 --> 00:43:23,648 - That same year, 2000, at a conference, 947 00:43:23,681 --> 00:43:25,587 Frank Houston is wheeled out onstage 948 00:43:25,621 --> 00:43:28,563 and the Hillsong pastor announces, and I'm reading here, 949 00:43:28,596 --> 00:43:31,672 "Here's a great man and a great apostle of faith. 950 00:43:31,705 --> 00:43:33,443 Let's all stand and honor him." 951 00:43:33,477 --> 00:43:36,720 And the whole congregation rises to their feet, 952 00:43:36,754 --> 00:43:38,927 and they applaud Frank Houston wildly. 953 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,531 (eerie music continues) (congregation clapping) 954 00:43:40,566 --> 00:43:42,805 This is an admitted pedophile. 955 00:43:42,839 --> 00:43:44,443 This is, like, a child rapist. 956 00:43:46,951 --> 00:43:49,893 Like... (eerie music continues) 957 00:43:49,926 --> 00:43:54,340 By December of 2000, the AOG New Zealand has allegations 958 00:43:54,373 --> 00:43:57,349 from six alleged victims of child abuse 959 00:43:57,382 --> 00:43:59,956 at the hands of Frank Houston. (eerie music continues) 960 00:43:59,990 --> 00:44:01,929 - It's now impossible to ignore, 961 00:44:01,962 --> 00:44:05,373 and so they had to take action against Frank Houston. 962 00:44:05,406 --> 00:44:08,047 And they quietly shuffled him sideways 963 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,388 and agreed to not tell anybody about it. 964 00:44:10,421 --> 00:44:11,892 (eerie music continues) 965 00:44:11,926 --> 00:44:14,132 - From the time these exposes started coming out 966 00:44:14,165 --> 00:44:17,074 in late 1999 to 2004, 967 00:44:18,512 --> 00:44:20,552 I think probably because of the stress 968 00:44:20,586 --> 00:44:22,490 and the pain of all of this and the humiliation, 969 00:44:22,524 --> 00:44:26,101 my father deteriorated very quickly into dementia. 970 00:44:26,134 --> 00:44:30,013 So month by month, year by year, he got worse. 971 00:44:30,046 --> 00:44:31,819 (eerie music continues) 972 00:44:31,852 --> 00:44:34,561 - Now, the diagnosis with dementia is significant 973 00:44:34,594 --> 00:44:36,031 because it means 974 00:44:36,064 --> 00:44:37,870 that Frank can't answer for any alleged abuses. 975 00:44:37,903 --> 00:44:39,107 (eerie music continues) 976 00:44:39,140 --> 00:44:41,682 Coincidentally, that diagnosis is provided 977 00:44:41,715 --> 00:44:43,688 by a guy named Dr. Gordon Lee 978 00:44:43,721 --> 00:44:46,697 who served for 22 years as a board member at Hillsong. 979 00:44:46,730 --> 00:44:49,538 (eerie music continues) 980 00:44:49,572 --> 00:44:51,477 - There was an extraordinary correspondence 981 00:44:51,511 --> 00:44:52,682 backward and forwards 982 00:44:52,715 --> 00:44:54,185 between the Australian Assemblies of God 983 00:44:54,218 --> 00:44:56,224 and New Zealand Assemblies of God 984 00:44:56,259 --> 00:44:59,636 that showed that they tried to limit 985 00:44:59,669 --> 00:45:01,742 as much as they possibly could 986 00:45:01,775 --> 00:45:04,951 any knowledge of Frank Houston's sexual offending. 987 00:45:04,985 --> 00:45:09,866 We learned that they had meetings about not telling anyone. 988 00:45:10,736 --> 00:45:12,172 (eerie music continues) 989 00:45:12,206 --> 00:45:15,215 They documented how they were not going to tell anyone. 990 00:45:15,248 --> 00:45:17,288 They wrote a statement that they then agreed 991 00:45:17,322 --> 00:45:19,562 they were not going to release to anybody. 992 00:45:19,596 --> 00:45:21,300 (eerie music continues) 993 00:45:21,334 --> 00:45:23,172 It's the Assemblies of God version 994 00:45:23,205 --> 00:45:24,911 of the Nixon White House tapes. 995 00:45:26,717 --> 00:45:29,993 - Confess your sin to the Lord and He'll blot it out. 996 00:45:30,026 --> 00:45:32,099 (film reel clicking) 997 00:45:36,111 --> 00:45:39,087 (traffic whooshing) 998 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,795 (somber music) 999 00:45:42,806 --> 00:45:44,602 - [Beckett] The main person handling the matter 1000 00:45:44,636 --> 00:45:48,748 for the Assemblies of God was you. 1001 00:45:48,781 --> 00:45:50,954 - Yes, trying to pull in all the information 1002 00:45:50,987 --> 00:45:52,693 so I could bring it to this- 1003 00:45:52,726 --> 00:45:56,202 - [Beckett] You were the son of the alleged perpetrator. 1004 00:45:56,237 --> 00:45:57,841 - Yes, exactly. 1005 00:45:57,875 --> 00:46:01,051 - [Beckett] How did you expect that to be received? 1006 00:46:01,084 --> 00:46:02,623 - I understand what you're saying. 1007 00:46:03,959 --> 00:46:05,699 The whole idea of a conflict of interest, 1008 00:46:05,732 --> 00:46:07,771 to be honest, hadn't even occurred to me 1009 00:46:07,805 --> 00:46:09,811 and was never suggested by anyone else 1010 00:46:09,844 --> 00:46:11,650 until we got here to the commission. 1011 00:46:11,683 --> 00:46:14,123 I saw it as me being in a role, 1012 00:46:14,156 --> 00:46:17,835 having to make tough decisions and having the guts 1013 00:46:17,868 --> 00:46:20,108 or the courage to make those tough decisions. 1014 00:46:20,141 --> 00:46:21,580 No matter what any paperwork says, 1015 00:46:21,613 --> 00:46:23,284 no matter whatever else happens, 1016 00:46:23,318 --> 00:46:26,226 I knew he would never preach again from that moment. 1017 00:46:27,765 --> 00:46:29,604 - The idea that Frank never preached again, 1018 00:46:30,807 --> 00:46:34,585 that's not true. (somber music continues) 1019 00:46:34,619 --> 00:46:36,122 - I remember when I heard that audio in 2004 1020 00:46:36,156 --> 00:46:37,561 where he was still preaching, 1021 00:46:40,001 --> 00:46:40,970 that was chilling. 1022 00:46:41,004 --> 00:46:43,746 That was really, really chilling. 1023 00:46:43,779 --> 00:46:44,882 - [Frank] What a wonderful joy 1024 00:46:44,916 --> 00:46:46,287 just to be in church this morning. 1025 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:47,290 - [Congregation] Yes. 1026 00:46:47,323 --> 00:46:48,727 - [Frank] Look at me today. 1027 00:46:50,064 --> 00:46:54,277 Nothing can separate you from the love of God. 1028 00:46:55,782 --> 00:46:57,085 - [Alex] We heard from former congregants, 1029 00:46:57,119 --> 00:46:59,927 some of whom wanted to remain anonymous. 1030 00:46:59,961 --> 00:47:01,231 I understand that you were close 1031 00:47:01,264 --> 00:47:05,176 with Frank and Hazel Houston in 2000, 2004. 1032 00:47:05,209 --> 00:47:08,788 - [Interviewee] Yeah, the last years of their lives, really. 1033 00:47:08,821 --> 00:47:10,794 All we were told is they were sent 1034 00:47:10,827 --> 00:47:13,233 to the Central Coast to retire. 1035 00:47:13,267 --> 00:47:14,939 (somber music continues) 1036 00:47:14,972 --> 00:47:16,878 - [Frank] God's got a purpose for your life. 1037 00:47:18,115 --> 00:47:20,957 God has got a purpose for your life. 1038 00:47:22,996 --> 00:47:24,669 - [Interviewee] I never heard a word 1039 00:47:24,702 --> 00:47:27,108 about them being stood down. (somber music continues) 1040 00:47:27,142 --> 00:47:29,114 They were like royalty. 1041 00:47:29,148 --> 00:47:32,290 They had their own parking spot out the front of the church, 1042 00:47:32,325 --> 00:47:34,230 and their names were on a plaque. 1043 00:47:34,263 --> 00:47:35,835 (somber music continues) 1044 00:47:35,869 --> 00:47:37,741 - [Frank] And the little boy back there, 1045 00:47:37,774 --> 00:47:40,984 two little boys, one bigger than the other, 1046 00:47:41,017 --> 00:47:43,859 but God's got a purpose for their lives. 1047 00:47:43,893 --> 00:47:45,364 - [Alex] You had young kids at the time, right? 1048 00:47:46,735 --> 00:47:48,171 (somber music continues) 1049 00:47:48,205 --> 00:47:51,850 - [Interviewee] He used to tell my son, who was 10, 1050 00:47:51,883 --> 00:47:54,323 "You look like you're a million bucks." 1051 00:47:54,357 --> 00:47:56,731 And you know what, if I knew what I knew now, 1052 00:47:57,901 --> 00:47:59,339 I would've punched him in the face. 1053 00:47:59,372 --> 00:48:01,177 (somber music continues) 1054 00:48:01,210 --> 00:48:02,783 - [Frank] What a fantastic young fellow he is. 1055 00:48:02,816 --> 00:48:05,323 Curly hair, sort of. 1056 00:48:05,357 --> 00:48:06,326 Good looking. 1057 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,031 (somber music continues) 1058 00:48:08,065 --> 00:48:09,168 It's not your fault you're good looking, 1059 00:48:10,137 --> 00:48:11,140 so thank God you are. 1060 00:48:13,113 --> 00:48:15,488 - [Interviewee] Never, never in a million years did I think 1061 00:48:15,521 --> 00:48:18,797 that myself and my son were standing 1062 00:48:18,831 --> 00:48:21,806 in front of a pedophile, a sex abuser 1063 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:26,219 who had actually abused other children at that age. 1064 00:48:26,252 --> 00:48:27,122 (somber music continues) 1065 00:48:27,155 --> 00:48:28,494 - [Frank] By the grace of God, 1066 00:48:28,527 --> 00:48:31,836 I'm still vibrant on the inside. 1067 00:48:31,870 --> 00:48:35,380 I'm still alive with the Holy Ghost on the inside. 1068 00:48:35,414 --> 00:48:36,985 (somber music continues) 1069 00:48:37,018 --> 00:48:40,496 - [Interviewee] Like, I just can't understand 1070 00:48:40,530 --> 00:48:44,975 that you would allow someone to be in that environment. 1071 00:48:45,009 --> 00:48:47,015 There was children there every week. 1072 00:48:47,048 --> 00:48:48,520 What the hell? 1073 00:48:48,554 --> 00:48:53,535 (somber music continues) (film reel clicking) 1074 00:48:53,569 --> 00:48:55,441 - For years, I would go to church 1075 00:48:55,475 --> 00:48:58,884 and I would try to immerse myself 1076 00:48:58,917 --> 00:49:00,287 in everything going on around me, 1077 00:49:00,321 --> 00:49:02,027 but I'd continue to get these thoughts. 1078 00:49:02,060 --> 00:49:04,434 This is rubbish. This isn't true. 1079 00:49:04,468 --> 00:49:06,407 And through the grapevine, 1080 00:49:06,441 --> 00:49:09,081 I found out that there was gonna be an announcement 1081 00:49:09,114 --> 00:49:11,589 about Frank Houston. (somber music continues) 1082 00:49:11,623 --> 00:49:14,196 - So I was Brian's intern. 1083 00:49:15,501 --> 00:49:17,607 Obviously super close with Ben and Joel. 1084 00:49:17,641 --> 00:49:20,047 I was at their house when all that stuff kinda went down. 1085 00:49:20,081 --> 00:49:22,456 I remember Brian talking about it 1086 00:49:24,259 --> 00:49:26,199 and what he was gonna have to do, to tell the church. 1087 00:49:26,232 --> 00:49:27,471 (ominous music) 1088 00:49:27,504 --> 00:49:29,174 - My own father, who was my hero, 1089 00:49:31,147 --> 00:49:35,359 was accused of sexual abuse. 1090 00:49:35,392 --> 00:49:36,329 It was like 1091 00:49:38,001 --> 00:49:41,110 jets flying into the Twin Towers of my soul. 1092 00:49:41,144 --> 00:49:44,019 (ominous music continues) 1093 00:49:44,052 --> 00:49:46,292 But the reason why I'm still here 1094 00:49:46,325 --> 00:49:49,134 and the reason why I still believe in the power of God 1095 00:49:49,168 --> 00:49:51,374 and still love to see people transformed 1096 00:49:51,407 --> 00:49:54,383 through Jesus Christ is because that still looks right. 1097 00:49:54,416 --> 00:49:56,088 What God says still looks right. 1098 00:49:56,122 --> 00:49:57,961 (congregation clapping) 1099 00:49:57,994 --> 00:49:58,997 Praise God. 1100 00:49:59,031 --> 00:50:02,373 (congregation clapping) 1101 00:50:02,407 --> 00:50:04,648 - All these people stood up and applauded him. 1102 00:50:06,185 --> 00:50:08,024 I thought, 12,000 people are wrong. 1103 00:50:08,058 --> 00:50:10,030 That was the last time I went to Hillsong, 1104 00:50:10,064 --> 00:50:13,139 and that was the last time I was afraid of going to hell, 1105 00:50:13,173 --> 00:50:15,581 because if it's between me and the guy 1106 00:50:15,615 --> 00:50:18,188 that's apparently covering up for the pedophile, 1107 00:50:18,221 --> 00:50:22,702 then I'll stand by me. (ominous music continues) 1108 00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,581 After that, I felt like I had a responsibility 1109 00:50:26,614 --> 00:50:29,690 to just raise awareness, to let people know 1110 00:50:29,723 --> 00:50:31,729 that they weren't everything that they seemed. 1111 00:50:31,763 --> 00:50:35,575 (ominous music continues) 1112 00:50:35,608 --> 00:50:38,482 - Frank dies in 2004 without being convicted of any crime. 1113 00:50:38,517 --> 00:50:39,587 (ominous music continues) 1114 00:50:39,620 --> 00:50:43,464 The police were never contacted by Brian or the AOG. 1115 00:50:43,498 --> 00:50:45,538 Brian's excuse was that he didn't know 1116 00:50:45,571 --> 00:50:47,375 that he had to contact the police. 1117 00:50:47,408 --> 00:50:48,780 (ominous music continues) 1118 00:50:48,814 --> 00:50:50,820 In fact, however, it was revealed later 1119 00:50:50,853 --> 00:50:52,491 that Brian had sought legal counsel 1120 00:50:52,525 --> 00:50:54,832 on the matter at least twice. (ominous music continues) 1121 00:50:54,865 --> 00:50:58,141 He knew that if he brought the matter to the police, 1122 00:50:58,174 --> 00:50:59,445 his father could have been incarcerated 1123 00:50:59,479 --> 00:51:01,753 and his church would have been disgraced. 1124 00:51:01,786 --> 00:51:04,662 (ominous music continues) 1125 00:51:04,695 --> 00:51:06,534 - When I was at the Royal Commission, 1126 00:51:06,567 --> 00:51:09,408 it was very interesting hearing Brian Houston's testimony. 1127 00:51:09,442 --> 00:51:13,420 The majority of his statements just didn't line up, 1128 00:51:13,454 --> 00:51:15,527 and I think it was like 1129 00:51:15,561 --> 00:51:17,567 there were too many cracks in the damn wall. 1130 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,171 (ominous music continues) 1131 00:51:19,204 --> 00:51:20,174 - [Prosecutor] Mr. Houston, can I suggest to you 1132 00:51:20,207 --> 00:51:22,347 that the inconsistencies and errors 1133 00:51:22,380 --> 00:51:23,819 in your statement were deliberate? 1134 00:51:25,624 --> 00:51:26,493 (ominous music continues) - Why would I admit it, 1135 00:51:26,526 --> 00:51:28,331 why would I bring it up here, 1136 00:51:28,365 --> 00:51:29,603 if it was deliberate? - Mr. Houston, 1137 00:51:29,636 --> 00:51:31,340 I'm just making a suggestion to you. 1138 00:51:31,374 --> 00:51:32,579 - If it was deliberate that I was trying to hide something. 1139 00:51:32,612 --> 00:51:35,185 I mean, the truth is, I didn't have to talk about it at all. 1140 00:51:35,219 --> 00:51:36,691 I spoke about it 1141 00:51:36,724 --> 00:51:39,867 because I'm saying I had completely forgotten this 1142 00:51:39,900 --> 00:51:41,471 and now I remember, 1143 00:51:41,505 --> 00:51:44,346 so I'm telling the commission this is what I remember. 1144 00:51:44,379 --> 00:51:46,721 - [Prosecutor] Thank you. Nothing further. 1145 00:51:46,754 --> 00:51:50,197 (ominous music continues) 1146 00:51:54,242 --> 00:51:57,385 (ominous music continues) 1147 00:52:03,731 --> 00:52:06,252 - Typically the way that Hillsong has handled scandal, 1148 00:52:06,285 --> 00:52:07,657 because I've been a part of it, 1149 00:52:07,691 --> 00:52:10,532 was what looks best for the church. 1150 00:52:10,565 --> 00:52:11,803 (somber music) But most of the time, 1151 00:52:11,836 --> 00:52:14,276 it serves everybody to push everything down. 1152 00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:16,785 You just push it as far under the rug as you can. 1153 00:52:16,818 --> 00:52:19,727 We choose narrative over truth, 1154 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,598 and that leads to absolute disaster 1155 00:52:21,633 --> 00:52:22,836 because the truth doesn't go anywhere 1156 00:52:22,869 --> 00:52:24,875 just because you cover it up. 1157 00:52:24,909 --> 00:52:27,450 - The Royal Commission's report has now published. 1158 00:52:27,483 --> 00:52:30,024 It's online, I encourage everyone to read it. 1159 00:52:30,057 --> 00:52:32,363 - [Reporter] 17 shameful volumes. 1160 00:52:32,397 --> 00:52:35,842 "It is a national tragedy perpetrated over generations." 1161 00:52:35,875 --> 00:52:38,315 - If you read the report of the Royal Commission, 1162 00:52:38,348 --> 00:52:40,321 it's pretty clear what happened. 1163 00:52:40,354 --> 00:52:42,696 The church had known about the abuse 1164 00:52:42,729 --> 00:52:44,601 for more than a decade and a half, 1165 00:52:44,635 --> 00:52:46,975 and the church had told nobody. 1166 00:52:47,008 --> 00:52:48,345 (tense music) 1167 00:52:48,378 --> 00:52:51,923 Here is a modern abusive institution 1168 00:52:51,956 --> 00:52:56,335 which the Royal Commission had just exposed. 1169 00:52:56,369 --> 00:52:58,944 (tense music continues) 1170 00:52:58,977 --> 00:53:00,515 This material is out there. 1171 00:53:00,549 --> 00:53:01,753 The police have it. 1172 00:53:03,558 --> 00:53:05,029 Time for some action. (tense music continues) 1173 00:53:05,062 --> 00:53:07,971 - The Australian government and this parliament, 1174 00:53:08,004 --> 00:53:11,816 on behalf of all Australians, unreservedly apologizes 1175 00:53:11,849 --> 00:53:13,922 to the victims and survivors 1176 00:53:13,956 --> 00:53:16,731 of institutional child sexual abuse. 1177 00:53:18,469 --> 00:53:21,913 - It soon became apparent that nothing was happening. 1178 00:53:21,946 --> 00:53:22,816 (dramatic music) 1179 00:53:22,849 --> 00:53:23,685 - We are sorry. 1180 00:53:24,855 --> 00:53:26,928 - This gross, gross failure 1181 00:53:26,961 --> 00:53:28,666 just kind of dropped into a hole. 1182 00:53:30,170 --> 00:53:32,679 There's no institutional explanation for this delay. 1183 00:53:32,712 --> 00:53:35,119 This isn't a hugely complicated case. 1184 00:53:35,152 --> 00:53:36,991 (dramatic music continues) 1185 00:53:37,025 --> 00:53:38,964 This isn't some kind of international drug smuggling ring. 1186 00:53:40,736 --> 00:53:42,508 So the question was, well, where are the police? 1187 00:53:42,541 --> 00:53:45,450 (dramatic music continues) 1188 00:53:45,483 --> 00:53:48,694 (church bell ringing) 1189 00:53:52,170 --> 00:53:56,483 - When Frank Houston died, a remarkable scene played out. 1190 00:53:56,516 --> 00:53:58,489 The next New South Wales Police Commissioner 1191 00:53:58,522 --> 00:54:01,766 attended Frank Houston's funeral as a mark of respect. 1192 00:54:03,069 --> 00:54:04,908 That police commissioner called Andrew Scipione 1193 00:54:04,942 --> 00:54:07,917 himself is a Hillsong congregant. 1194 00:54:07,951 --> 00:54:09,522 (tense music) - Post royal commission, 1195 00:54:09,555 --> 00:54:13,935 we still had very senior members of the state government, 1196 00:54:13,969 --> 00:54:16,844 including the former police commissioner, 1197 00:54:16,878 --> 00:54:19,051 very, very closely connected with this institution 1198 00:54:19,084 --> 00:54:20,522 as though nothing had happened. 1199 00:54:20,555 --> 00:54:22,193 (tense music continues) 1200 00:54:22,226 --> 00:54:23,965 - Perhaps it's coincidence, 1201 00:54:23,999 --> 00:54:27,576 but for the duration of Commissioner Scipione's time 1202 00:54:27,609 --> 00:54:29,950 running the New South Wales Police, 1203 00:54:29,983 --> 00:54:31,588 there was no effective investigation 1204 00:54:31,621 --> 00:54:33,527 into Brian Houston or Hillsong. 1205 00:54:33,561 --> 00:54:34,932 (tense music continues) 1206 00:54:34,965 --> 00:54:37,573 As a journalist, this is a moment 1207 00:54:37,606 --> 00:54:39,847 that is really worth untangling. 1208 00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:40,983 (tense music continues) 1209 00:54:41,016 --> 00:54:43,256 - Hillsong followers are rife 1210 00:54:43,289 --> 00:54:45,162 throughout Australian politics, 1211 00:54:45,195 --> 00:54:47,268 throughout the Australian public service, 1212 00:54:47,301 --> 00:54:48,739 especially within the police. 1213 00:54:48,774 --> 00:54:49,642 (tense music continues) 1214 00:54:49,675 --> 00:54:51,113 - And it turns out that in fact, 1215 00:54:51,147 --> 00:54:52,986 part of the church's business model was 1216 00:54:53,019 --> 00:54:56,730 to put its supporters in positions of power and authority 1217 00:54:56,764 --> 00:54:58,268 and look for people in positions of power and authority 1218 00:54:58,301 --> 00:55:00,274 and make them their supporters. 1219 00:55:00,307 --> 00:55:03,651 And it had been extremely successful in doing that. 1220 00:55:03,684 --> 00:55:06,726 In a few short decades, Hillsong had managed 1221 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,137 to capture a fairly big chunk of Australian politics. 1222 00:55:10,170 --> 00:55:13,581 (tense music continues) 1223 00:55:17,091 --> 00:55:18,830 - The fact that Frank has passed away 1224 00:55:18,864 --> 00:55:21,036 has made it extremely difficult 1225 00:55:21,070 --> 00:55:24,848 to make any progress in terms of pursuing justice. 1226 00:55:24,882 --> 00:55:28,827 (tense music continues) 1227 00:55:28,860 --> 00:55:30,966 I don't know that there's any way 1228 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,707 to compensate for what's happened, 1229 00:55:33,741 --> 00:55:35,345 and I don't think money's gonna do it. 1230 00:55:35,379 --> 00:55:38,354 (melancholy music) 1231 00:55:38,388 --> 00:55:40,762 It's all the lost opportunities. 1232 00:55:43,872 --> 00:55:44,842 It's still there. 1233 00:55:44,875 --> 00:55:47,215 I still feel a degree of shame. 1234 00:55:47,248 --> 00:55:48,686 Not okay. 1235 00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:49,755 Don't quite measure up. 1236 00:55:49,789 --> 00:55:51,728 (melancholy music continues) 1237 00:55:51,761 --> 00:55:53,399 Not a whole person. 1238 00:55:53,433 --> 00:55:54,704 Slightly broken. 1239 00:55:56,408 --> 00:55:59,953 Every part of my life has been impacted. 1240 00:56:00,890 --> 00:56:02,761 (melancholy music continues) 1241 00:56:02,794 --> 00:56:04,165 I just saw no hope. 1242 00:56:04,199 --> 00:56:06,908 (melancholy music continues) 1243 00:56:06,941 --> 00:56:09,448 Without the support of my wife and family, 1244 00:56:09,482 --> 00:56:11,287 I wouldn't be here today. 1245 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,965 (melancholy music continues) 1246 00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:18,308 (no audio) 1247 00:56:21,484 --> 00:56:24,025 (tense music) 1248 00:56:29,211 --> 00:56:30,825 - Not only was there this delay, 1249 00:56:30,858 --> 00:56:33,499 but there was also very close associations 1250 00:56:33,533 --> 00:56:35,070 between the Hillsong leadership 1251 00:56:35,104 --> 00:56:38,247 and the then Australian political leadership, 1252 00:56:38,281 --> 00:56:40,487 and we just got stonewalled. (tense music continues) 1253 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,128 All these institutional barriers started going up. 1254 00:56:43,162 --> 00:56:44,767 Well, that gets my hackles up, to be honest. 1255 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,508 (tense music continues) 1256 00:56:47,541 --> 00:56:51,386 Thankfully, we had a survivor 1257 00:56:51,420 --> 00:56:54,295 who was not willing to let it go 1258 00:56:54,329 --> 00:56:57,136 and had the courage and the emotional strength 1259 00:56:57,171 --> 00:57:00,580 to speak to a national audience and demand action. 1260 00:57:01,751 --> 00:57:03,556 - My name's Brett Sengstock. 1261 00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:05,662 I appeared at the Royal Commission as AHA. 1262 00:57:06,866 --> 00:57:08,103 That was my pseudonym, 1263 00:57:09,340 --> 00:57:12,616 and I now stand before you 1264 00:57:12,650 --> 00:57:13,787 with who I really am. 1265 00:57:14,622 --> 00:57:16,295 (melancholy music) 1266 00:57:16,328 --> 00:57:18,367 - When Brett spoke to "60 Minutes" 1267 00:57:18,401 --> 00:57:23,282 he changed from being an acronym in a block of text to being 1268 00:57:24,753 --> 00:57:29,300 this compelling, powerful, brave human being. 1269 00:57:30,437 --> 00:57:31,606 (somber music) 1270 00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,612 - I'm tired of people speaking for me 1271 00:57:33,646 --> 00:57:38,561 and telling the world how I felt and how I am feeling. 1272 00:57:38,594 --> 00:57:40,200 Now I'm telling the world how I really do feel. 1273 00:57:40,233 --> 00:57:42,406 - And how is that? (somber music continues) 1274 00:57:42,439 --> 00:57:43,174 - Pretty annoyed. 1275 00:57:45,248 --> 00:57:45,916 Pretty annoyed. 1276 00:57:46,853 --> 00:57:49,627 And I'm not going away just yet. 1277 00:57:49,660 --> 00:57:50,630 (somber music continues) 1278 00:57:50,663 --> 00:57:52,236 - Neither Brian Houston 1279 00:57:52,269 --> 00:57:54,242 or any of the Hillsong Church's leaders 1280 00:57:54,275 --> 00:57:56,448 have faced any legal repercussions 1281 00:57:56,481 --> 00:57:59,323 for their failure to report an indictable offense. 1282 00:57:59,357 --> 00:58:01,964 It's now 49 years since the abuse started, 1283 00:58:01,998 --> 00:58:04,807 and 19 years since Brian Houston was aware of it, 1284 00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,281 and three years after the Royal Commission delivered 1285 00:58:07,314 --> 00:58:09,554 its damning report, yet nothing has happened. 1286 00:58:09,587 --> 00:58:10,891 (somber music continues) 1287 00:58:10,925 --> 00:58:13,699 Brett Sengstock has contacted my office for help. 1288 00:58:13,734 --> 00:58:15,840 He is suffering from a life-threatening illness, 1289 00:58:15,873 --> 00:58:17,277 and he is concerned justice 1290 00:58:17,311 --> 00:58:18,982 will not be served in his lifetime. 1291 00:58:19,015 --> 00:58:22,493 That would be a further obscene betrayal. 1292 00:58:22,526 --> 00:58:24,699 While Brett's waiting for justice, 1293 00:58:24,733 --> 00:58:29,045 we have the Trump administration inviting Brian Houston 1294 00:58:29,079 --> 00:58:31,854 to be his extra-special guest 1295 00:58:31,888 --> 00:58:34,595 at a White House reception in Washington. 1296 00:58:34,629 --> 00:58:36,334 (somber music continues) 1297 00:58:36,368 --> 00:58:37,003 - Well, what an honor to be standing in the White House 1298 00:58:37,036 --> 00:58:38,641 in the Cabinet Room, 1299 00:58:38,674 --> 00:58:41,751 and to have just had the chance to pray for President Trump. 1300 00:58:41,784 --> 00:58:44,358 - It's a fact that Brian Houston is a close friend 1301 00:58:44,392 --> 00:58:46,030 of the prime minister, Scott Morrison. 1302 00:58:46,063 --> 00:58:49,005 - What this country needs more than that is the love of God. 1303 00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:50,778 (congregation clapping) 1304 00:58:50,811 --> 00:58:53,017 - I just want to guarantee you 1305 00:58:53,051 --> 00:58:55,692 that we will be praying for you. 1306 00:58:55,726 --> 00:58:58,567 And praying for you not just now, but consistently. 1307 00:58:58,601 --> 00:59:00,105 (congregation clapping) 1308 00:59:00,138 --> 00:59:02,646 - No one, regardless of their friends, 1309 00:59:02,679 --> 00:59:04,084 should be beyond the reach of the law. 1310 00:59:04,117 --> 00:59:05,522 (somber music continues) 1311 00:59:05,555 --> 00:59:08,062 - I want my husband to have justice. 1312 00:59:08,096 --> 00:59:10,703 He deserves it. (somber music continues) 1313 00:59:10,738 --> 00:59:15,485 - To go on national TV as a survivor of child sex abuse 1314 00:59:15,518 --> 00:59:19,697 and to demand your measure of justice, 1315 00:59:19,731 --> 00:59:23,442 that is the work that finally pushes institutions to act. 1316 00:59:23,475 --> 00:59:24,445 (somber music continues) 1317 00:59:24,478 --> 00:59:25,950 There is compelling evidence 1318 00:59:25,983 --> 00:59:28,691 that Brian Houston knew while he was a church leader 1319 00:59:28,724 --> 00:59:31,098 about the abuse, about the hush payments, 1320 00:59:31,131 --> 00:59:32,837 and that he failed to tell the police. 1321 00:59:32,870 --> 00:59:34,107 This is a crime. 1322 00:59:34,140 --> 00:59:35,043 (somber music continues) 1323 00:59:35,077 --> 00:59:36,749 - [Announcer] A key question, 1324 00:59:36,782 --> 00:59:40,192 when did he first learn of those allegations of abuse? 1325 00:59:40,225 --> 00:59:41,663 - [Reporter 1] Now, amidst this turmoil 1326 00:59:41,696 --> 00:59:43,067 in church leadership, 1327 00:59:43,101 --> 00:59:45,608 an early leader of Hillsong has come forward. 1328 00:59:45,642 --> 00:59:47,749 - [Reporter 2] Brian Houston categorically denies 1329 00:59:47,782 --> 00:59:50,022 knowing any claims of sexual abuse by his father 1330 00:59:50,055 --> 00:59:53,632 before 1999, but Bullock says Houston knew 1331 00:59:53,666 --> 00:59:55,906 of allegations by his father years earlier. 1332 00:59:57,043 --> 01:00:01,088 - I do know that Frank was outed, 1333 01:00:01,121 --> 01:00:02,961 because Brian told me in the early 90s. 1334 01:00:02,994 --> 01:00:05,200 (somber music continues) 1335 01:00:05,233 --> 01:00:08,510 I should've said something and done something long ago. 1336 01:00:10,148 --> 01:00:15,030 Not only wasn't Brian accountable, but neither was I. 1337 01:00:15,899 --> 01:00:18,640 (somber music continues) 1338 01:00:21,248 --> 01:00:24,090 - It was only after that New South Wales Police Commissioner 1339 01:00:24,124 --> 01:00:27,802 departed the scene in 2019 1340 01:00:27,835 --> 01:00:31,947 that the police began a real investigation of Brian Houston. 1341 01:00:31,981 --> 01:00:33,619 (somber music continues) 1342 01:00:33,652 --> 01:00:37,229 - December, 2021, a year after Carl is banished, 1343 01:00:37,263 --> 01:00:39,102 Brian Houston is indicted in Australia 1344 01:00:39,135 --> 01:00:42,612 for allegedly covering for his father being a pedophile. 1345 01:00:42,646 --> 01:00:46,123 - Breaking news in relation to a religious leader 1346 01:00:46,156 --> 01:00:48,129 and a friend of the prime minister who's being charged. 1347 01:00:48,162 --> 01:00:50,636 - This is a New South Wales Police statement. 1348 01:00:50,670 --> 01:00:52,141 A church leader is being charged 1349 01:00:52,174 --> 01:00:53,612 over the alleged concealment 1350 01:00:53,645 --> 01:00:55,585 of alleged child sex offenses. 1351 01:01:07,789 --> 01:01:09,627 - You need to know that there is an enemy out there, 1352 01:01:09,660 --> 01:01:11,599 and his intent is to defile you, 1353 01:01:13,204 --> 01:01:15,645 and let's always remember that when we see the church, 1354 01:01:15,678 --> 01:01:19,055 His beautiful church on the Earth, attacked. 1355 01:01:19,088 --> 01:01:20,727 Royal commission week, 1356 01:01:20,761 --> 01:01:23,134 I have never felt so exposed in my life, 1357 01:01:23,167 --> 01:01:25,976 and I remember I didn't know what to do but wait. 1358 01:01:26,009 --> 01:01:27,012 And so all day, I waited. 1359 01:01:27,046 --> 01:01:28,416 I went out. 1360 01:01:28,450 --> 01:01:30,757 I did a manicure, a pedicure, and a massage 1361 01:01:30,791 --> 01:01:33,097 'cause I wasn't ready to back to my real world 1362 01:01:33,130 --> 01:01:34,702 which, gentlemen, that's what you do. 1363 01:01:34,736 --> 01:01:36,106 (congregation laughing) (somber music continues) 1364 01:01:36,140 --> 01:01:40,954 It is no point any of us wasting energy 1365 01:01:40,988 --> 01:01:43,830 on how unfair this seems. 1366 01:01:43,863 --> 01:01:47,173 Not the issue, but the unfairness that, yet again, 1367 01:01:47,206 --> 01:01:49,881 my husband's integrity was about to be assailed. 1368 01:01:49,915 --> 01:01:52,388 (somber music continues) 1369 01:01:52,421 --> 01:01:53,559 - More than seven years 1370 01:01:53,592 --> 01:01:57,436 since the Royal Commission first detailed what happened, 1371 01:01:57,470 --> 01:02:02,451 there is this chance, this very real chance, 1372 01:02:03,856 --> 01:02:05,494 for the courts to deliver justice. 1373 01:02:05,528 --> 01:02:06,664 - [Reporter 3] Houston is facing serious jail time. 1374 01:02:06,698 --> 01:02:11,144 - [Reporter 4] Fate of his church in the hands of the law. 1375 01:02:13,786 --> 01:02:15,893 (no audio) 1376 01:02:22,211 --> 01:02:24,317 (no audio) 1377 01:02:30,971 --> 01:02:33,110 (no audio) 1378 01:02:39,395 --> 01:02:41,468 (no audio) 1379 01:02:48,022 --> 01:02:50,195 (no audio) 1380 01:02:56,346 --> 01:02:58,386 (no audio) 1381 01:03:04,906 --> 01:03:06,209 (no audio) 1382 01:03:06,243 --> 01:03:09,252 (melancholy music) 1383 01:03:15,370 --> 01:03:18,981 (melancholy music continues) 1384 01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,610 (melancholy music continues) 1385 01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:36,667 (melancholy music continues) 1386 01:03:36,701 --> 01:03:39,475 (no audio) 1387 01:03:39,509 --> 01:03:42,418 (camera shutters clicking) 1388 01:03:42,451 --> 01:03:45,628 (bright music) 1389 01:03:45,661 --> 01:03:48,302 (somber music)